Installation of Jenveys with Emerald ECU on my 302

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
I fitted the intake manifold, but was suspicious of the fit as the lower part of the gasket looked a bit loose, sure enough I can get a feeler gauge in there. Not just in one place, but each cylinder. The top part of the gasket is sealed but not the bottom as though the angle is different.
As I see it, the possibilities are;
The cork gaskets at the ends are preventing closure. I doubt this as I would expect it to pull down in the middle, but it hasn't.
or The angles are slightly different, or slight discrepancy in dimensions in which case I may need to remove heads, replace gaskets and try to tighten heads and manifold together. Maybe a thicker intake gasket would help as well.
I'll have a closer look tomorrow.
Any experience of this / comments from you guys?
Dave
 

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Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
So with the help of Jacmac and others I established that the clearance at the intake manifold ends was too small for the cork gaskets so I used instant gasket to finally install it. This weekend I fitted the hp pump, filter, and surge tank, made up all pipework up to the PRV. Just the return pipes to do now.
Dave
 

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Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Despite lack of posting, except for a family wedding 2 weeks ago, I have worked on this every night after work and day at weekends. Now wiring up. I will post pictures soon.#
Dave
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Cheers Jimmy, last week was MOT so first time on the road. Drivable in top gear but doesnt rev, masdively overfuelled but I'm learning to adjust to the point where it will drive a bit further to a rolling road.
A few pictures.
 

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Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
On Friday, I had a go at balancing the TB's at idle. I made a simple manometer with a wooden lathe turned cap with a 1" hole. Coloured the water with some red syrup. A couple of rubber washers with 10mm and 8mm holes over the 1" turned out to be what was required to get decent readings.
At first I found that number 5 TB had a reading of 7" compared with 2" the highest out of the others. Since its brother number 6 was only reading 1.5" there was clearly something amiss. So I removed the TB pair, and found that there was play between the spindles. The Jenvey nameplate is removable and reveals a cavity with the spacer connecting the pair of spindles together. Problem was a loose grubscrew, so easily fixed.
Once I did that, I was easily able to balance the TB's within about 20% of each other, which I felt was good enough for starters. Maybe I will try to get them a bit closer once I have reasonable basic ecu settings.
 

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Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Update
I reduced the fuelling by reducing ecu MBPS which improved the running to the point where I was happy to drive about 25miles to a rolling road.
The engineer went about setting things up at low revs and working his way up. No pulls or anything and the highest speed he really used was 4000rpm as we encountered three issues.
First he tested the fuel flow from the low pressure pumps (facet red tops), which seemed to be quite low, less than a litre per minute, while he was expecting more than 2. This was put down to the filters I have on their inlet side. So he didn't expect to get very far in terms of rpm / power before we ran into starvation issues. I am going to check the redtop filters and if they are ok, remove the additional filters. Are these suitable anyway as they clatter away like mad with no back pressure in the system.?
Second, the ecu supply voltage tended to drop a lot when cooling fans and electric water pump were on and we were seeing as low as 10.4V at the ECU although battery voltage was around 12.3V. I have always known there is some issue as the voltmeter up front always reads lower than battery voltage so I need to find and fix that issue. In the meantime, I have moved the ecu supply to the pump power relay so now it is always within 0.1V of battery terminals.
The third thing which stopped us going further was a sticking throttle cable, the inner sleeve had started to melt near the exhaust (lack of real cooling air at the back.) Ended up with a couple more return springs to get me home, so that the accelerator felt like the brake. Needless to say I was scared that if I opened the throttle, it wouldn't close so I drove gently!
Fixed now and I will go for a run tomorrow / Saturday to see how it is.
Dave
 
Update....
First he tested the fuel flow from the low pressure pumps (facet red tops), which seemed to be quite low, less than a litre per minute, while he was expecting more than 2.

Hi Dave,

good to hear you are getting near the fun end of the ITB conversion! In terms of flow from the lift pumps, assuming they are charging up a surge tank or swirl pot arrangement, you obviously want comfortably more volume from the low pressure system than the engine will ever need.

The margin of safety will need to account for situations when the lift pumps are sucking air when the tanks are low or experiencing surge due to lateral/longitudinal Gs. This also means that the lift pumps should be of a type that primes effectively after temporarily losing an effective siphon. A total LP flow into the surge tank of 3.5-4 litres a minute should be sufficient for your HP pump to service 500HP with a good margin to spare. Your tuner/mechanic is in the zone with an expectation of 2 litres/min from each lift pump.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Andrew
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Hi Andrew, thanks for the confirmation on flows. I will be looking in to this shortly. First I will do a check without the additional filters as one possibility is they introduce too much resistance. They will have done their job now after all the disturbance to the tanks.

I was trying to get an AFR indication but haven' t found a gauge yet at a sensible price. I tried a multimeter but impedance is too low and drags the voltage down. I have a Bosch wideband with comtroller feeding the ecu with 0 to 5V. Anyone comment on that?
Dave
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
I removed the additional filters from before the LP Pumps and rechecked the flows, but still less than 1 litre/min. Didn't have time to check the pump inlets so I will do that later, but this doesn't seem to affect the car under acceleration, bearing in mind that I haven't been over 100mph at this point.

I took the car out for it's second significant run, on the Classic Car Tours Rest and Be Thankful run.
What I can say on the engine performance so far.

1 There is definitely more power to come, more road tuning required. I now have a small laptop and intend to use the Emerald data logger function to see how AFR / timing vary and respond with acceleration etc. At the moment I simply don't know. Any comments as to how I should go about this?
Also PerfExpert and Harrys Lap Timer available.

2 I tried a couple of standing starts, the first one stalled, the second one bogged. So I didn't even try for the hill climb runs. Once away she accelerates well, so I am wondering what adjustment might improve the standing starts. Any comments?

3 Cruising at low revs with on off tiny throttle movements there are some intermittent spitting noises and one or two pops and bangs. Again, any comments?
Dave
Dave
 

Ian Anderson

Lifetime Supporter
Hi Dave
On my Dax I need to blow through from the fuel pump side using air every couple of years.

It seems there is some crud in my tanks that slowly build up in the tank fuel pickup pipes and it slowly accumulates till it gets too slow.

Open fuel cap disconnect fuel hose and blow air back through which clears the crud for another couple of years.

I have not figured a way of getting to the crud in the tank and removing it.

Ian
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Hi Ian, if your tanks are the same as mine, you can remove the level sensor, which accesses the open chamber at the back where the pickup tube is located.
Dave
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
A few changes in preparation for driving to Goodwood in a few weeks. First I was never happy with the voltage reading. It never seemed to hit more than 12.5 volts and any thing switched on it would drop to 11. The meter was measuring voltage at the end of a chain of instrument light supply wires, so I changed that, while it cured the voltage drop there was still not much charging going on, so I got a new alternator. Now it shows 13.5V at tickover so I am happy with that now.
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
New Facet Red tops installed. I also put an orifice in the return to the diverter valve to get a small back pressure in the surge pot. Hole is about 1/16" and gives a back pressure of 1.5psi but only with hp pump / engine running. Havent quite understood that yet. Before the orifice I tried creating back pressure with the Malpassi Filter King but as I expected didnt work so I moved on to the orifice idea.
Dave
 

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What are you still doing with those inferiour Facet pumps ?? Facet pumps don't do big number GPH's especialy when under pressure.
A Holley Red does tripple the GPH even under pressure vs the Facet Red or Blue.
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Thanks JP, I see that you are exactly right. I did know already but didn't have the alternative you have now supplied. I suppose that on the road it won't be a problem, as throttle is never sustained for long. I will need to put this right in the future though. thanks
Dave
 
Dave, on the road we experianced the shortcomming of the facet pump. We first thought bad pump, replaced it three times then a racecar driver at Spa 6hr gave us the hint.
Our Capri 3.0 running tripple 40's had issues after one hour drive, especialy on hot days, fuel starvation. ( have wideband monitor & fuel pressure gauge on board.)
When facet pumps warm up they start reducing ghp inmidiatly.
Doesnt matter if you run a fuel return or not.
When swapping the Facet for a Holley Red all issues we suffered the last four years disapeared.
We take that Capri on our long run hollyday trips to foreign countries. No interiour so lots of lugage space, the right colors and makes the right noises.

Even our '73 F250 400, 4barrel didn't get enough fuel from one single Facet Bleu top.

I sponsor a Rally Ford Escort 2.0 mk2 running twin 48's which sufferd the same issues. I suplied two Holley Red pumps and that rally car is running fine now for two years.
Second pump still acts a a backup and has never been fired up yet.

Must say, on advise from other forum members my GT40 build will have the less expensive Carter fuel pumps.
 

Dave Bilyk

Dave Bilyk
Supporter
Thanks JP, Interesting experiences, I suppose that I could put the two pumps in parallel, but I would then have to return to both tanks simultaneously. However, I will look at the Carter option too. Capri 3.0 and Escort 2.0 on Webers, don't they sound great!:)
 
Carter fuel pump wise. Its the P4600HP I got recommended.
I did some google search on it and it seems to be a decent pump with cons and pros against the Holley Red.
Pricewise Carter beats the Holley.

I bought a few from Rockauto but havent running them as I am still collecting parts to start building the GT.

Have a '72 Capri V8 supercharged, the mentioned '78 Capri 3.0 RS and my '73 Ford F250 all running the Holley Red. ( they where all running the Facet Blue top).

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/carter,P4600HP,fuel+pump,6256
 

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