Ford 3 litre GT (F3L) versus GT-40...

[Rick]

I'm a new member here and was wondering if anyone could tell me how similiar was the 1969 Ford F3L monocoque tub to the GT-40, or any elements there of.

I'm currently doing research on the Alan Mann Racing Ford P68/P69s so any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated, especially if anyone could supply me general dimensions (i.e. length, width, height, wheelbase, track f/r, wheel f/r, etc) in addition to any websites containing information on these cars...

I have a good isometric cut-away diagram of the car at this time, however I'd like to see something more detailed showing off the chassis components to determine if the uprights are the same and/or similiar to the GT-40.

Best Regards,

Rick

 

[M.B]

I dought if anything what so ever are of GT40 origin on those cars.
Don´t know all the smallest details, but it is all together a totally different car.

Of course it relates somehow to older cars, but just in general.
Development..and testing new grounds...

Not to many in existance either...

Good luck !

 

[M.B]

Forgot...
See what i can dig out during the holidays...
If you do not hear anything, give me a reminder....as a PM !

 

[Paul Bearman]

Hi all,

I do not profess to be an expert on this subject, but here is an extract from an article I wrote for the GTD40 Car Club magazine. Some facts may be inaccurate and if you know differently please correct me.

The F3l or P68 was intended to be a Group 6 Sports Prototype and was designed by Len Bailey and built bu Alan Mann at Weybridge in the UK.
It was powered by the then latest Ford Cosworth 3L v8. It was described as 'virtually a two-seater Formula 1 car'.
It was constructed from 0.030" Aluminium alloy of the type used in the aircraft industry. The chassis layout was virtually identical to the J-car with side sponsons acting as the main longitudinal members in conjunction with a central tunnel housing all pipe work connecting the engine at the rear to the oil and water coolers to the front. The back of the cockpit acted as a firewall and was also part of the structure to which the rear trailing arms were attached and acted as the rear cross member.
Front suspension was double wishbone manufactured from welded tubes with the bottom transverse link being made from square tub section. Front stub axles with brake discs were mounted in-board of the wheel up-rights. At the time this caused speculation that 4 wheel drive could be a future addition !! Brake discs were 11.5 " front and rear.
Rear suspension layout was basically the same as the GT40 incorporatingEric Broadley designed four link trailing arms and co-axial spring and damper units.
The Ford Cosworth 3L V8 engine developed 400bhp at 9000rpm. This drove the rear wheels through a Borg and Beck racing clutch and a Hewland gearbox.
The car was longer than the GT40 at 13' 10" but had a narrower wheel base of 7' 3". The height was 35.5" and weighed in at 1480 pounds some 320 pounds lighter than a GT40. The tail shape generated 600 pounds of downward thrust at 200mph.
Probably the most awe-inspiring fact of the F3L was that it was designed and costructed in just 5 months !!!

Hope this is of some help.

Regards.

 

[Rick]

Thanks for the info, Paul, much appreciated.

Rick

 

[D.Berry]

Please post a photo of one of these F3L (?)cars... I'm in the dark on these things...

David Berry

 

[Rick]

As requested, David, it's the #17 car in the attached photo... pretty, isn't it?

 

The F3L is indeed very pretty.
Had it won LeMans 3-times, we would probably all building and driving F3L replicas.
The body lines show some similarities with a 1997 Ferrari Dino prototype, the Dino Berlinetta Prototipo Competizione.

 

[Rick]

Don't you mean "1967" Ferrari Dino...?

You're right, I think the F3L unfortunately came out when things were starting to quiet down between the "big" manufacturers, thus perhaps the reason why it wasn't campaigned as much.

Rick

 

F3L,
I try to show a picture here, hope it works:

 

[M.B]

Rick !
You got some attachment´s in your Hotmail...

 

[Rick]

I stand corrected, thanks to the great info Marco sent me. Looks like things were a bit "rushed" during development coupled with some bad breaks at the track...

Rick

 

[D.Berry]

Thanks for the photo... I'd like to see a few more if anyone has them to post. Kinda' reminds me of the Mirage variants on the GT40 with the narrowed greenhouse. By specifications listed in an earlier post, the perfromance should have been very impressive. Did the cars have much success on the track? How much did they cost? What are they worth today? Thanks for the info...

David Berry
DFW, TX

 

There are more photos on the following website and actually the best collection of original GT40photos that I found so far on the web: web page

 

[Howard Jones]

Speaking of 3 liter Fords. Has anyone put a DVF in a GT40. Real or replica? What would work for a gearbox? Must be a ton of old CART or GP car boxs that fit up to a cosworth. Anyway you guy's got me thinking. Sure would be light! Under 2000lb ? Hummmmmmmmmmm
Merry Christmas, bleeding the brakes today. Gotta get back to work!

 

[Rick]

I believe David Piper in the UK has two of them, while another (the third one?) is up for sale around 330,000 Pounds Sterling, pocket change, indeed...

I ordered a backissue with some articles on the F3L, can post something when it comes in.

Rick

 

[Rick]

Howard, I believe you could use a Hewland DG300 for your transaxle to go with your Cosworth DFV...

Rick

 

[Howard Jones]

You know I was talking to a Guy down in LA Calif. USA who said he had a whole bunch of Indy car gearboxs left over from the 80s. They had straight cut gears and no sincros but would handle 800HP. He wanted to sell me on for about 1000USD said it they were in used but good shape. OK guy lets build a "paper" cosworth GT40. What does a costworth weight? Its got to be at least 200lb lighter than the lightest 302. I guess we will have to get our hands on a fuel/spark box,to run the thing. Oh and buy the way what does a rebuilt DFV cost? Maybe you guys in England could help us on our "paper" DFV40. You got to admit it sure would sound good!

 

[Rick]

Howard, try www.racecars-direct.com for used Cosworth engines, I thought I saw a listing for around $40K for a 3.0 litre DFV or thereabouts...

What is the make of the used gearboxes this guy you know has, Getrag, Hewland, ZF, Xtrac...?

Rick

 

[Howard Jones]

I'm pretty sure they were 5 Sp Hewlands ,somewhere down in LA Calif USA, but this was about 6 mos prior to me getting my GTD. I was in the process of sourceing ZF's for a ERA build. I decided I could'nt afford a ERA so I am about 80% done with a GTD. That was about 31/2 years ago. Anyway Our "paper" DFV40 just went up by about 40K USD. Anybody got any other gearbox ideas? how about engine management? If we spent say 50K USD for a kit RF or otherwise I guess this is why nobody has put a cosworth into a GT40 kit.