Who has built a tornado?

[peluchin]

I would like to know who of you have built a Tornado and your opinions about it.

Thanks
Javier

[chip]

We are building a Tornado at this time. We have been very happy with how Andy Sheldon responds to questions and/or requests. We have decided to reengineer a few things like the shft linkage. Overall: Pleased. chip

[ntmatter]

Did you order the Deluxe kit? It seems pretty complete, but I'm curious about how much assembly work has been done in a Tornado Deluxe kit, as compared to the NZ or RF kits.

[Andrewtheman]

im curious, is the tornado legal/ safe for road use in the US??

like the NZ i heard it wasnt to great if you were hit in the side


im just curious because the tornado seems like one i could actually build, without saving forever. like one i could build once i move up in my job(something to build while schooling for my career) of course id go with the basic kit and slowly build it

also doe it have a manual or anything?

[Chris Melia]

Hi All

This is Rob Garrard Tornado and its just as good as any other GT40 replica. In The early days there was a suspension problem but that has been rectified. I recall the Tornado suffered from spring binding, probably from the wrong shocks being fitted, this resulted in bent bottom wishbones.
regards
Chris

[Andrewtheman]

well im sold on it, as long as i can drive it here with no worries about not having crumble bars

or are they called anti intrusion bars in other places?

i heard the NZs dont have that so im IFY

[neils]

Andrew,

They are often referred to as Side Impact Protection bars in the UK....

Don't know about the lack of them in Tornados.... they refer to steel strengthening/frames in the roof and doors in their brochure.... is this SIP?

Also, I've owned/driven/rebuilt enough 60's cars to realise that SIP wasn't high on the design agenda!

Rgds

Neil

[Chris Melia]

Hi Andrew

If you want additional side impact bars then why not glass them into the doors afterwards, its not rocket science.

Regards,
from the space center

Chris

[Ron Earp]

NZ cars have these. Ditto for RF And CAV and probably ERA. It ain't gonna help much. A 2 inch piece of square tube secured at both ends to the chassis is not going to stop a 4500 lb SUV from rolling into the side of you and the car. The cars are safer than motorcycles, so if you are used to this then you'll have no problems.

R

[Bill D]

These cars sit so low, that a side impact by an SUV or truck will probably go over the top. Most truck and SUV bumpers are about window height or higher.

The side impact bars are more for hitting the wall on a race track than to provide protection from some idiot mom on the cell phone in her Suburban.

Bill D

[Andrewtheman]

must be a fast suburban if it can catch a 40 [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

well ill have to email tornado about the crunch bars

i just want the thing to be same enough to where if i did wipe it in a corner i wouldnt be killed instantly, though its not a bad way to go in a dream car, but its not the way i wanna go

[David Morton]

Any space frame car can only be braced between the inner and outer sill, and reinforced bracing between the outer tube and bottom tube doglegging around the tank (w.r.t. side impact bracing). On my GTD I have four additional upper braces and two underneath as part of the rollover bar.
The explosafe foil that GTD used
in their tanks ( I don't know about other tanks except bag tanks)will NOT protect you
in the event of a side impact. It will only slow down the ruptured tank leakage. One possible and logical answer is to have a dual chamber fire bottle with 5 kg or so to the carbs and 2.5kg in the cab (yes - it's lousy to breath in if you can't hold your breath long enough to get out but its preferable to fuel vapour. Halon (or BCF - bromo-chromo difluoromethane) is outlawed, we know, but it has never been surpassed as a fire depressant agent.(Where do all the BCF extinguishers go when they are withdrawn - answer: the airlines take them to build up a Halon bank for the aircraft systems) AFF foam works but it has to be in contact with flames or fuel to work. Once you have fuel vapour - forget it .
Dry powder and CO2 work very well but only as 'intervention' methods (we are not talking about an enclosed space now) though dry powder will also act as a major laxative
if your unlucky to be in the area when it's dicharged.
As part of my build I have a detachable steering wheel with a lemo plug in the wheel centre which when you detach the wheel, the electrics are killed instantly.
I'm ever so slightly 'phobic' about fires( a long story - two aeroplanes, a hotel and a house fire) so I have spent some time on the GTD to try and make it safer. I think it's better now than it was, but its a long way from being 'Very' safe. I wish I'd taken photographs while it was still open but the sills are closed up now. With hindsight I would have preferred bag tanks with a second tp4 skin surrounding them.
Monocoques (with bag tanks) are a seperate issue and could be made as strong or as weak as you want them to be.(I recall the tragic F3 accident at Thruxton [Marcel Albers] when the car inverted, hit a large concrete catch fence post and broke up- the bag tank was still virtually intact).
I don't imagine the original cars from the Slough trading estate paid that much attention to side impact, or rust, or longevity for that matter.
Dave M

[ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: David Morton ]

[ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: David Morton ]

[Torn40]

I think we're getting off the mark here but the comments do raise understandable issues over safety including that of fire. I think it is important to understand what we are talking about here. All these cars are relicas of a 1960s racing car, and as such cannot realistically replicate modern crumple zones and safety devices. The kit car industry cannot do this, it costs millions in R&D as most major manufacturers will tell you. As such it is my belief that driving such a vehicle is inherently dangerous which is a risk that has to be taken to appreciate the car. I have often wondered what would happen if my vehicle were involved in a crash. Fire is an obvious risk, my tanks are explosafed, I have two on-board extinguishers and electrical cut offs. Unfortunately oxygen masks do not fall from the overhead lockers just yet! In the event of a smash I fear I would be hurt due to the height of the vehicle not its strength. If you take all the glass fibre off the car there is a huge ramp leading to your head from the front, a massive engine to break your back from the rear, and two large fuel tanks to break your pelvis and barbecue you from the sides. How far do you go? Can you effectively redesign the chassis, or panel in steel and add cross bracing? Of course but it wasn't designed that way. The ultimate choice is yours.

Which brings me back full circle. The Tornado is just another GT40 replica. In my opinion, they are all similar in design and construction, they have to be due to the car they are trying to replicate. Sure monocoques are stronger, but the GTD and Tornado space frames are different versions of the same thing. Some people on this forum will now be seething with rage from this comment so please don't nit pick and drag this on. Everyone wants their GT40 replica to be the best. Me...? My Tornado is on the road, people appreciate the work thats gone into it, but when asked, I say its a GT40 replica not a Tornado. People associate the shape with a GT40, not a p***ing contest between rival manufacturers. Effectively, if you have doubts over the quality of a product you have two choices; go elsewhere or build your own from scratch.

I'm more than happy with my Tornado, the quality of service I get/got from Andy Sheldon, and the quality of the product. Moreover I like the feedback I get from the public over the car... it makes it all worth the blood, sweat, and tears. Isn't that what its all about?

[David Morton]

Torn40,
You are absolutely correct. Where does anybody draw the line. You pays your money and take various choices along the road to building these cars. A lot of people share their ideas which is a great thing on this forum.
Dave M

[MK -IV J6]

There have been some pretty hard shunts involving MK-IV's. Andretti hit the wall at LeMans at 145 and survived without being hurt too badly but Ken Miles in an earlier version of the tub was killed albeit in a much higher speed crash (200). J11 a replica built on a real tub has been involved in a number of crashes and so far it's drivers have survived. To the best of my knowledge a MK-IV fuel system has never been breached even though fuel does flow into the cockpit to the fuel PSI gauge. ( I tried to isolate this gauge without success but at the low psi the two 4 barrels operate at the islator dosen't work.) The Mk-IV was one of the first race cars to have an onboard fire system and to the best of my knowledge one has never gone off in a MK-IV. (Mine is fully operational and updated)
That said nothing in life is without risk but having survived two teenagers I'm willing to take my chances with J6 on the roads of NY...
Best

[ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: MK -IV J6 ]

[Andrewtheman]

well i want this thing to be decenty durable, like if i were to loose to at 50 around a corner not hve to worry about going splat over it

id settle as long as it had about the durability as the original, since Lemans racers are somewhat safe....well for a car that whips corners at 80