spaceframe GT40 kit

[Datonabill]

My hat is off to the manufactures of GT kits over seas, they got us US guys by the --lls. It does come down to price, they can produce these kit for a lot less than we can.
Put your self into the shoes of someone who would want to start a kit car company. It takes a ton of money to get anything done in this country. I have to operate my composite business as an underground business. I can't meet the EPA rules, pay workmans compensation, & just pay anyone to work for me. I'm cheap at $25.00 per hour. Some shops near me charge $80.00 and more per hour for prototype work. Do the math; It took me two thousand hours to sculpture out the body of the Daytona Coupe & cast moulds for a kit car manufacturer.
I just looked into getting the demister grill reproduced. Talked to a company that's layed off most of it's work force... said that they could spit these things out by the hundreds hourly. The tooling is enough to brake the bank at just a couple of thousand & the part would end up costing about $60.00. Is there a market for just this part??? I'm not going to risk the money.Just an example of what I have come up aganst.
I think the market for GT40 kit manufacturers is still ripe. I just wish we here in the US could get the job done. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Andrewtheman]

am i the only one thinking maybe its good that these prices stay a little high? i dont want this car to just become another cobra replica. heck i live in like the middle/low area and there are like 10 cobras.

how is a car special if every 3 houses has one??

also, the prices arent that bad, if your impatient then they are awful prices. while personally i could live with having a chassis on jackstands in my garage for a little bit while i saved for the rest

[JP]

Exactly,

Andrew The Man has a very valid point.

I would certainly rather be a minority rather than a majority!

Regards,

J.P

[Mike Dozier]

Fear not gentlemen....

I can assure you with FULL confidence that
the number of GT40 replicas will NEVER
NEVER NEVER EVER approach the number of Cobra replicas, which are still purchased
at an astounding rate.

These two vehicles are Fords...and that's
about it! Cobra is a short wheelbase,
open cockpit, front engine, hot rod
dragster. GT40 is a refined, rear engine,
closed cockpit, endurance racer.
Apples vs oranges! And if that ain't enough...the price differences alone
guarantees there will never be 10,000
GT40 replicas.

SDP

Malcolm's comments need explanation.
You can buy REALLY cheap Cobra replicas
in the UK with ladder frames and 4 cylinder
engines for $ 10,000. That will get you
a nice GT40 frame and body.

On the other hand, you can buy an ERA Cobra,
install a full boogie aluminum 427 side oiler, and spend $ 70k on your Cobra,
which is more than a CAV GT40.

Generally speaking...the more you spend on
ANY REPLICA, the higher level of features
you should receive.
GOLDEN RULE!...What is your intended usage?
What is the budget you can sustain?
That should dictate whether your results
will equal your expectations.

Want a 200 mph capable GT40? $ 50k won't do it. Just want a weekend cruiser? $ 50k is fine. But as someone pointed out...there just isn't enough used GT40s trading in the US yet to EASILY find one for $ 50k.
You may have to import a partially built kit
and complete locally. Hopefully that will
soon change.

MikeD

MikeD

[Ian K]

Mark - simple answer - build two more [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] !!

Seriously, I agree with Andrew - my brother
in law keeps telling me to buy a C5 vette, or
a '66 vette, or a 911, etc. In my neck of the
woods, even a '63-'67 vette is pretty common.
And every time I take my Integra into the
shop, I get to window shop Boxters and 911s
while I wait (it's a Porsche-Acura dealer).
They even have an original 356 Speedster
in the showroom.

I think my bro-in-law will change his tune
next time I go down there and we pay Bob Lacy
a visit [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

But, once I buy and build, I don't plan on
selling. But, as Wayne Preseley said, anything
can be had - for a price.

Oh, and back when you could get a Tornado
in the US from Andy Sheldon's rep, the price
for a complete kit was under $50K. And that
included everything - including the engine.

Ian

[Robert Logan]

Ian,

You can buy all the parts to complete one of our GT40 replica's for under the US $50,000.

You have mail !!!

As regards to numbers of Cobra's and GT40's , I was told by Mike Blake a few years ago that there were a staggering 66 manufacturers in the US alone.

Lets stay exclusive, I have made a rule that I will never sell more than 12 new cars in Australia in any one year. This I am very happy to stick to as it keeps the level of work at a level that we can maintain the highest quality and also keep the sale and resale values high for our customers.

I leave for the Knotts show tommorow , hope to see some of you there,

Best wishes,

Robert

[Mike Dozier]

Just to be clear...

The $ 50k I was referring to above is for
a completely assembled GT40, painted,
and with basic 302/audi trans.

There are several folks selling quality Cobras with same level of completion for
$ 35k (302/T-5 trans).

I do NOT see good quality GT40 components costing more than $ 15k over the Cobra.
So $ 50k is definitely attainable given
proper cost control and parts selection.
Just hasn't been done yet. Someone will.

MikeD

[Robert Logan]

MikeDD,

Our price is for the parts and not assembly as you said.

As regards to component costs , are there any Cobra's using their own fabricated suspension that is made of Chrome Molly. It still comes back to that very difficuly thing of comparing apples to oranges.

Best wishes,

Robert

[cougaraug]

well, why can't someone make a single donor GT- 40 kit using only ford parts for around $15000?? OH CRAP, I sound like MEAT [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Mike Dozier]

Robert

I understand that the RF40 has upscale features like big brakes, leather interior,
sophisticated electrical and fuel system, etc etc. I think most people see the RF40 as the "best" space frame GT40. I do.

But you and I know there's room in this
market for lower cost/lower content GT40's
that could be wonderful cars as well.
Just a matter of your priorities.

I'm perfectly happy with a vinyl interior,
15" wheels, 11" brakes, simple carbureted
engine. I don't have $ 60k to spend.
Market forces being what they are,
there will be less costly GT40s in the USA.
Just a matter of time.

MikeD

[Ian K]

MikeDD,

Just an idea - but an FFR MkII is $12K US
for a kit, whereas they're targeting
$20K - $25K for the FFR mid-engined
super car. Same donor Mustang would be
required, so even FFR feels a decent mid-engined
car is about $8K - $13K more. And their
final cost is yet to be decided.

Ian

[Mike Dozier]

It's a shame Factory Five "wimped out" to Shelby's lawyers and agreed not to do a GT40. But I guess I can't blame them for protecting their bread and butter (Cobras).
Would have been interesting!

MikeD

[Ian K]

Yeah, it might have made things easier
for people on tighter budgets. But,
if and when the FFR GT200M-Mulsanne
comes out (I think that's the name),
you might be able to buy the kti (or completed
car secondhand), and get a body from
the UK.

I'm still curious to see how much of a donor
they are using, and what the frame is going
to look like. I really think they are
low-balling the price a bit, but they have
proven people wrong in the past.

Ian

[Mark Worthington]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ian K:
I'm still curious to see how much of a donor they are using, and what the frame is going to look like. I really think they are
low-balling the price a bit, but they have
proven people wrong in the past.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the frame is going to look a lot like a GTD frame. The other week a guy and his wife from FFR came to my house to pick up some wheels which are being shipped to Gordon for his next RF. As we were loading them up in my garage, he noticed my RF and commented, "Gee, that's an interesting frame. Our engineers would love to get hold of that for our new car." He didn't hesitate to tell me that FFR purchased a GTD and is essentially copying its chassis for their GT200M-Mulsanne. I was amazed that he was so nonchalant about ripping off someone else's design. I don't know too much about FFR, but my opinion of them wasn't helped much by his comments.

[Ian K]

Yeah, I figured as much. I just hope that
they got it right, even if they copied it exactly.

Interestingly, in one of the "spy" photos
of the GT V8 Spyder you can make out a GT40
sitting by it. Wonder if it was the GTD they
"borrowed".

I also hope the bits they fabbed, like uprights
and suspension, are well made. I hope they
are able to bring it to market at their
target price - then it would be interesting
to see if one could take a GTD body and
fit it to the FFR/GTD chassis.

BTW, where in MA are you located? I went
to high school in Taunton and occasionally
get back there for visits.

Ian

[DanielD]

from the posts that I read about the GTM development that they did purchase a GT40 to use as an initial study and starting point.
They are not following the design though. The frame will have a solid tube running thru the center area as its main support.
The gas tanks will not be in the outside along the doors either. I have talked with a couple of the engineers on the phone about it. They are open and will freely share the information to whoever is interested in talking by phone. Give them a call if interested. 508 291-3443. Ask for Jim in engineering. I think someone can come up with a GT40 body to work with this frame. The existing bodys in the Uk will not work though. The car will be longer then the GT40. Maybe the doors can be streched and center section in the roof lengthened and curved slightly higher leaning toward the ultima's roof shape alittle.

[ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Dan Dinverno ]

[40 Bud]

I have been going thru a lot of old magazines and I have discovered that you guys are a little behind the times. Back in the late sixties you could get cheap replica 40's. Try Avenger, Fiberfab, Valkyrie etc. The offerings that some of you complain are to expensive should look for one of these oldies are maybe get one of the Fiero coversion kits. The RF, GTD, DRB, Tornado, 40NZ, MDA, ERA, CAV and numerous others about to come out are advances form those early beginnings. They offer you the chance to own a custom designed, high performance GT. They are not donor car rebodies. As I have said in previous posts, quality costs and people go into business to make money. Good luck to all you who hope to get the house on the hill for the price of one in the slums!

[Frank Catt]

Hey you guys, this topic started with Jean Fourie posting that carcraft are building a space frame GT40 and asked for interest, no more! I have seen pictures of their chassis and have to say it looks to be very competant indeed, if the rest of the car is to the same quality and they can keep the price down then there is definately a new kid on the block. I think that Jean could be a welcome addition or a serious threat, depending upon which side of the fence you sit! Frank

[DanielD]

I agree with you Frank. Somehow the posts started to lean towards one of the previous topics of the hopes of a Factory Five type of company offering a low budget GT40. That is not what this topic is about.

[ April 08, 2003: Message edited by: Dan Dinverno ]

[Mike Dozier]

The reason this thread went of course is because the question Jean asked was too vague. Once he clarifies his "expected"
scope of supply and "expected" pricing,
I think he'll get more beneficial feedback.

MikeD