East Coast (USA) CAV Dart Block Project.

Lynn · 12-11-03, 10:23 AM

Gary, As I recall you were building a Dart block motor for your CAV Demo car. Is the project done and what were the results of your efforts? Did you get dyno numbers?

And while we are on the subject of CAVs, I am curious if the cost of a CAV from the factory is low enough that people are buying them and building spec cars? Is this why we are suddenly seeing a goodly number of CAVs on the various automotive classifieds venues?

(As an explanation for those unaware of US real estate lingo, a spec house, for instance, is a house built as a speculative investment for sale for a profit.)

Regards,
Lynn

Kevin M · 12-11-03, 12:03 PM

The Dyno charts are posted on his website.

http://www.2gmotorsports.com/

Mike Dozier · 12-11-03, 12:28 PM

Lynn

Since CAV's market niche is turn key minus cars, it's natural that they will show up for sale more frequently
since they get completed quicker than component builds.

But I would be surprised if many of the CAVs for sale
(other than those by CAV dealers) were spec cars.
That's pretty risky for a relatively unstable market.
I think more likely most end up getting sold because
the owners see something else that catches their eye,
or their priorities change. But it certainly doesn't cost much to run an ad on E-Bay and see if you get lucky!
So I wouldn't be surprised to see some speculation.

IMHO as more CAVs and RFs get completed and trade hands,
a more "stable" price range for these cars will become
apparent, and there will be less chance of someone
making a "big kill" like the $ 100k CAV at Barret Jackson.

MikeD

Steve Toner · 12-11-03, 01:11 PM

Just a thought: I think there is less of a personal investment in a CAV, as they come turnkey-minus. I expect that RF builders who have a significant amount of sweat equity in their cars will be less likely to sell them. But with a CAV, it's easy for someone to buy one because it looks cool and then discover how impractical it really is...

Lynn · 12-11-03, 03:07 PM

Gary,

I ran the ZF gear ratios through my spread sheet and determined that you are running tires with a 26.3 diameter. What size gives you that? (None of the spec sheets I have have 15" wheel size listed.)

Thats pretty impressive. With a G50/50 and 26.1" 255/45-ZR17s, I am only running 194.071 @ 6500RPM. With a G50 its down to 164.481; just a tad under the Audi Getrag. Here are 3 cruise RPMs I worked out for the ZF:
Gr. 45MPH 60MPH 80MPH
1st 4786.2 6381.5 8508.7
2nd 2986.7 3975.5 5309.7
3rd 2114.8 2814.9 3759.7
4th 1569.4 2089.0 2790.1
5th 1306.0 1738.4 2321.8

(Sorry for the run together look; I've got to practice with the list tool)

Ron Earp · 12-11-03, 07:25 PM

I just don't ever see the cars selling for what you can buy them for, or am I crazy?

I mean, you can get a nice roller from any company for about $65k. At that point the engine and drivetrain will determine the final price one should pay. If details are not known, history is spotty, etc. then the car will sell for less than it should be worth as we saw eariler this week with the early space frame CAV.

That car, beyond having components that were unknown did not have the best fit and finish. The seller removed a lot of the pictures that were in place when the auction started but if one looked eariler you'd see shut lines that were all over the place, a wavy curve at the bottom of the drivers side door, and some other bits. Most of the pictures that showed this detail were removed about 1/4 way through the auction. So, in the end I think the price was fair since I figured it be at least 10k to bring it up to nice levels. Still, a bargin in my book though.

In the end the market will determine the price, but with GT40s becoming more common I think the days of $100k cars is long over. So, think about what you wish to put into them if you're the speculative type. Me, I'm building it for experience, fun, something to do, and uniqueness. Anyone can buy a car, but only a few can build one. And I don't expect to really recover my cash and time, I'll just keep the car and enjoy it hoping that I'm not forced to sell for finacial reasons.

Maybe folks that are selling the CAVs in the market are of the "Toy of the Month" club, those that are well off and can afford to swap things when they are bored. We don't see too many of those folks on this board though, we tend to have more dedicated GT40 enthusasits here I think. And that includes a bunch of CAV owners too, so this isn't any slam toward that car or owners. I just think if people can get them turnkey essentially, though a well marketed effort, then some folks that might not investigate a GT40 will buy, become unenchanted, and sell.

In the US CAV is selling a lot of cars too which accounts for it as well. I think someone said 50 delivered, that is above the number of RFs that I can think of since I've spoken to all of those owners/buyers (around 20 I think) over the phone in the last year or so. More cars, more sells.

Gary Gibbs · 12-11-03, 09:36 PM

Lynn,
My car is very close to being finished. I have made a few upgrades in the quest for perfection. I will certainly post when it is totally on the road. Rick came over the other week during first fire up and it sounded real nice.

i do think the Dart block is a nice way to go as it allows for larger bores (up to 4.185" on Cast Iron version) and is made for 2000 HP (4 bolt mains on all bearings including the first and last for example).

Some of the resale on CAV's I would expect is due to the fact that their are quite a few on the road. I know we have had orders for something like 80. Also most of the resales are for tube frame versions (maybe they are upgrading ??). And owners tend not to have as much sweat equity in the car.

Mike Dozier · 12-12-03, 05:04 PM

Lynn

Please don't ask a technical question and a commercial
question in the same thread. Just too confusing for my
shrunken brain to follow.
Thx

MikeD
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