Need guidance on a purchase

Bill D · 11-30-04, 11:18 PM

I have been lurking for some time now and I'm about ready to take the plunge. However, funds are severely limited and I feel if I don't at least start with a basic package, I may never be able to jump in the water.

I have looked at Tornado and RF. Both are great cars. However, I can get a Basic Package from Tornado for about $10K USD. Although the brake system is not as desireable as that of the RF, I do not have any plans to race, just drive and drive and drive.

As I see it, I could get the basic kit and get additional parts as $$$ becomes available.

I am soliciting pros and cons on this approach from the more experienced builders who can shed light that I can not see.

Regards and many thanks
Bill
Los Angeles

Tim Kay · 12-01-04, 12:10 AM

Bill,

I am located in the Inland Empire (Riverside). I have a Tornado if you would like to come out my way to check it out.

Mark Worthington · 12-01-04, 01:22 AM

Bill, I assume your research has revealed the unfortunate fact that $10,000 doesn't buy too much GT40, no matter how you spec it out. If your research worked out like mine did, then you've probably also conclude that the cost to build a finished car the way you really want it done isn't really that different from one kit to another. If you have to drain your GT40 account to jump in the water with a basic package, you may find yourself slowly drowning from every incremental purchase (wheels/tires, seats, engine, transaxle, body, hardware, electrical, tools, etc.). Unless your wife is a saint there's a good chance you'll be divorced before the car is finished. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My advice is to take a longer-term perspective on your purchase, so you can save your money and bide your time until a smokin' deal comes up on a more complete car.

Charlie M · 12-01-04, 07:27 AM

Bill,

I'm looking at the same cars as you are. One thing I'll add is the USD prices on the Tornado web site aren't accurate, they are based on $1.5 USD to the British pound. The actual exchange rate these days is $1.92/pound. When you factor this in, the RF car is more competitive cost-wise to the Tornado.

Charlie

Bill D · 12-01-04, 09:07 AM

Tim-

I would love to come and see your car. Send me directions via email and we can talk further.

Charlie-

I keep watching the exchange rates and keep crying as the dollar continues to slide. I would like to get an RF kit, but their basic package is $21.5K. I don't know when I can get the other $11K together.

I won't be making any decision until spring, but wanted to hear from others before I make a decision. As I see it, it will take me several years, but at least I can say I have a GT40.

Thanks
Bill

Dan Weilacher · 12-01-04, 11:16 AM

Bill, you could sell that cobra in your pic . I sold a modified vintage vette to help fund my car . I really dont miss it . Regards,Dan ps. When you get your GT done do you really need 2 cars ?

Bill D · 12-01-04, 11:24 AM

Dan-

I plan to sell the Cobra, but need to use the money to buy a house, my first priority.

A friend suggested that I sell the Cobra, buy the house, then when things look settled, take a second for enough money to build the car complete. Sounds good, but I need to complete steps 1 and 2 first. Nothing is planned until after the new year.

Bill

Ian K · 12-01-04, 11:31 AM

Bill,

I'm sorta in your shoes. I have the house, but we already
took a home equity out to remodel. We're hoping to sell
soon and buy a larger house (with a 3 car garage) in a
nicer part of town (or, we might relocate to San Diego,
which throws everything back a few more years).

My wife is understanding of my plight (and knows how badly
I want a 40). She wants to start a savings account so that
every birthday, anniversary, and Xmas, she can put some
$$ in for either a 40 or some race school. I told her thx,
but I can wait, and the money is better spent elsewhere ...

Ian

Dan Weilacher · 12-01-04, 11:31 AM

Oh I gotcha Bill, especially since you live in LA , I could understand that with the cost of housing! take care, Dan

Howard Jones · 12-01-04, 01:23 PM

A lot of the labor is body prep. If you want to do it yourself you can save a LOT of money. Secondly the cost of supplies to do you own body prep is very low, I would say in the low hundreds incuding some basic hand tools and a sander etc.

So since you wil be starting with a frame and body more of less then you could spend the first year doing the body, spend very little additional money, and save for more parts.
I would however get the stuff that is sole sorced from the builder at the beginning like suspension parts, hubs, windshield etc. You don't want to be looking for this kind of stuff years latter.
The one thing I would recomend on a very tight buget would be to buy the part you want on the car in the end even if you are forced to wait until you have the money. Buying things twice will kill a tight buget.

Finally as soon as you can open a home equity loan. buy everything for the car with it and pay the loan off instead of a credit card. Over the cource of several years you will offset at least some of your cost with the tax benifits of a home equity loan. Don't be suprised if you write off hundreds of dollars in taxes this way.

BenL · 12-01-04, 03:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My wife is understanding of my plight (and knows how badly I want a 40). She wants to start a savings account so that every birthday, anniversary, and Xmas, she can put some
$$ in for either a 40 or some race school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you got a great wife!

Ian K · 12-01-04, 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My wife is understanding of my plight (and knows how badly I want a 40). She wants to start a savings account so that every birthday, anniversary, and Xmas, she can put some
$$ in for either a 40 or some race school.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you got a great wife!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep - sure do [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Her aunt owned a '78 280Z (which her brother wound up
getting for free) and when she was little, she always
wanted one. When we met, I still had my '72 240Z, which
she hated because it was so small, but loved every chance
she got to drive it ...

She liked driving my '95 Integra GS-R, up until the baby
was born - now she wants a tank for protection! That's
why she drives the Tahoe.

Ian

Lynn · 12-01-04, 05:09 PM

Bill,

If you want to take an even more incremental approach, don't discount the product that Chris Melia can set you up with. He has a very nice body that can get you started. He can give you particulars on which chassis it will work with when you get to that stage. As Howard pointed out, most of the outlay when working on the body is going to be in sweat equity as opposed to buying and bolting on parts.

Or, you could buy the chassis first, but that would make you want to spend money sooner and faster I think. You would be wanting to put an engine on it, tires and wheels, radiator and lots of odds and ends that will add up quickly.

Its kind of a shame that you can't buy either of the cars that use 'Vette parts in partial kits because they use parts that are more readily available in the US. When you have to source parts from overseas it really runs the price up. A few years back when the exchange rate was advantageous to us, it wasn't as big of a deal. Not so anymore. I got lucky in one sense in that I got one of the last kits built in the US that used parts readily available here and didn't require me to buy a complete roller like ERA.

Lynn

Keith Hardy · 12-01-04, 05:49 PM

don't discount the product that Chris Melia can set you up with. He has a very nice body

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Lynn, don't mean to highjack the thread but I got as far as this, and kinda choked. You know? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

flatchat(Chris) · 12-01-04, 06:47 PM

Exactly what I was thinking [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Bloody funny Bastards!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

JOSEPH · 12-01-04, 07:24 PM

Dear Bill D,
I remember back 12 years before I bought my CAV being in your position. I was given a ride ( in a parking lot ) in an original GT-40. I became hooked and starting to save as much as I could over the years while raising 3 boys. Once the passion gets a hold of you you will never lose it. I knew that I would never have the time or the space to build one, even though I would have liked to. So when luck came my way of CAV starting business here in the US I had just enough to put my " BLUE BEAUTY " in my garage and feel like the luckiest guy in the world. Keep our options open and heed the advice of our GT-40 brothers here on the Forum and you to will eventually get your ultimate dream. Good luck. Joseph [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Bill D · 12-01-04, 08:06 PM

Lynn-

Can you elaborate on the Chris Melia option? You can send me a PM or email if you don't want to answer on the forum.

BTW - it is a blessing to be able to come to this forum and get such wonder advice without being ridiculed or laughed at. Professionalism and etiquette certainly abound here.

Bill D

Mike Dozier · 12-01-04, 09:59 PM

Lynn

You can buy a DRB in stages...but the drop in the dollar, and freight/import duty on the basic frame/body has priced
it well beyond what I would call affordable.
It still elludes me why no one in the US can offer
a basic tube frame and body at a price that makes sense.
It's nothing more than tubing and fiberglass....

MikeD

Lynn · 12-02-04, 01:33 AM

Mike,

I don't understand it either. I thought John Hester was going to do the tube frame first and I think he might have faired better if he had. Although, I am not sure he ever had a chance when his intial source of capital fell through shortly after he bought the tooling from John Donnelly. But, hindsight is 20/20 I guess. John Donnelly could have been there if he hadn't gotten screwed up with American GT and hit such a severe cash flow shortage. I've mentioned this before in one of Andre's threads: It seems that so many guys are so secretive and unwilling to partner that their isolationist views prohibit them from becoming properly capitalized. They insist on going it alone when they just aren't able to and would rather fold up than partner. I don't get it. Perhaps they think that there isn't enough market to sustain a decent living for more than one person and maybe they are right. John D. tried to capitalize by going public or semipublic. I suppose he figured that these kinds of silent investors wouldn't try to steal the business from him, but those kinds of investors want more ROI than this kind of business can generate I think. Someone has to have deep pockets and a passion for the car. IMHO, no one is going to get rich building GT40s, you just have to love doing it and hope the business can reach a point of being self sustaining long enough to get to the point that ERA has reached. I suppose Bob is making a decent living and the business has supported itself, but I don't think he started producing all of the other cars JUST for the fun of it. I feel that he probably had to diversify to produce a somewhat constant level of cashflow to be able to maintain enough of an inventory of parts and materials to be responsive to his customers and the market. I think the Johns were trying to get there, but they never got the snow ball big enough to sustain them when things got a little bit hot (not good hot, but like in trouble hot) for them. I know John D. was robbing Peter to pay Paul for a while, but I thought he always came through in the end. Apparently, there was a figurative Peter at the end of the list that did get ripped off in the end. And then, Donnelly disappeared, presumably, back to England.

Enough rambling,
Lynn

Ian K · 12-02-04, 11:42 AM

I'll be keeping an eye on CJ