RF GT40 pricing....WHAT?

[ChrisL]

I think that it is important to keep in mind that RF did not conjure a reduction in prices from nothing. This has been building for a long time and if RF had not been the first to drop their prices, then there is nothing more certain that someone else would have. This would have impacted on the market in exactly the same way and possibly even left RF in the lurch. As a (selfish? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) RF owner I’m happy that Robert managed to get in a fraction of a second before his competitors. If he had not and decided to call it a day instead, then our babies may have been worth that little bit less as a result of the cars being orphaned. So any existing RF owner out there, who may be wondering where this might leave them, should be happy in the knowledge that it has probably saved them some money. It all depends on how you look at it.

I personally have no intention of parting with my car in the foreseeable future (a lucky relative might even inherit it in many years to come) and I am philosophical in my long term view. Over the years, chances are that the GT40 market will take all sorts of unexpected twists and turns before it finally settles on the place that is relevant to me so I’m not going to mull over the whatifs just yet. The real estate industry has a saying. Profits and losses are not real until you sell.

[Ron Earp]

I must say I’m quite surprised at the price reductions and the move to SA. I feel that it is a good thing though and certainly will help Roaring Forties claim a larger section of the market. The prices should give anyone reason to consider their pending purchases carefully and I can plainly see how some folks would be disappointed if they recently purchased complete kits for $45k. But, I hope that does not affect too many customers and that the positive aspects of it, more affordable GT40s for us all and continuation of a manufacturer in our home market, outweighs the personal negative facets.

It would appear that the price reduction would have some fairly heavy impact on the market overall. Right now completed turnkey minus cars have been hovering at around about $65k and upwards mark irregardless of if the car is a space frame or monoque chassis. Upwards does not seem to the trend however, in fact, lower prices seem to be in the works all around.

Despite what I thought months and even a year ago, it does indeed appear that Superformance will have their monoque GT40 on the market very soon for $65k, not the $80k that I and some others envisioned. Therefore, knowing the quality of Superformance products through the Cobra and Daytona coupe, this car could form a “standard” by which the monoque cars will be judged and set a price precedent.

Given that the RF cars are well received for the space frame market then what could fall out is that these two marquees define something of a market upper and lower bounds with respect to price for the mainstream customer. There would certainly always be more expensive (GT40 NA for example) and less expensive (Fran’s kit packages) but for mainstream consumers this might very well outline the market prices (insert your favorite marqee in place of the one’s I’ve chosen if you like, but I think you get the idea).

I don’t know how it will affect the value of existing cars, that is an interesting question. But I would think that now, and particularly when the Superformance car debuts, then there will be a decrease in values – for better or worse. I’m actually supposed to go take a look at an ERA locally for consideration to purchase. I’ll know something of the amount of money in the car once I have a look at the components and how it is put together. However, just tallying up the amount of money in the car and considering the quality etc. won’t, in light of these recent changes, give me a flat out value of the car. I’m assuming he’ll want a fair amount because ERA’s have traditionally bought a good penny due to the high initial cost, quality and exclusivity. But with other multiple offerings now available for less money that can offer similar or in some cases better value/technology/quality I can’t help to think that for many buyers this car just became lower in value.

I don’t feel that lower market prices is a bad thing at all though, being one who lost money and time on my own build, because lower market prices will get more people into GT40s and that is a good thing for the community. We still won’t ever see one on every street and there will be far less of these than Cobras, another car I’ll have to own. Now, if it ever gets to the point that I see GT40s commonly running around sporting 18” bright chrome spinners and huge sub boxes booming then I’m out!

Best,
Ron

[I LOVE GT40- Paolo]

plz RF..also consider to make available some alraedy finished and street plated cars for market as the Italian one where is almost impossible to plate it as a kit.
At that price u surely will sell a lot also here

Thks)

Paul

[Steve Toner]

[ QUOTE ]
being one who lost money and time on my own build

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me about it. At least yours was by choice. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Chris Coote]

For those of you out there who are hurting over paying big $$$s and then seeing your investment significantly reduced in price you have my sympathy.Whilst I have one of Roberts cars and do not always agree with him I can say he has "the best" product out there.It may be some consolation that those of you who have already bought his car that you have one of the original "ozzie" built cars and not a cheaper Chec or "yarpee" South African car.No pun on the quality there-just the cost to make it .Our previous Government killed our manufacturing base to be competitive in component manufacturing.Being an ozzie I can appreciate the hard yard Robert has put in to get to where he is today.Legislation and beaurecrats here in Oz was killing his business and it was becoming sink or swim for him.To us lucky owners with 5ltr pushrod V8s our cars have done the opposite and increased in value as there will be "no more" except the odd 4.6 modular job.Not my cuppa tea.To all potential GT40 customers put your money down "now"as they will not get cheaper.On todays exchange rates my car owes me just on US$100,000 or $130,000 Oz.Hope that makes some of you out there feel better but at the end of the day real fun aint cheap.Cheers.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]

Despite what I thought months and even a year ago, it does indeed appear that Superformance will have their monoque GT40 on the market very soon for $65k, not the $80k that I and some others envisioned.

[/ QUOTE ]

How soon is soon?

[SpyderMike]

soon - you can order it now...and get it this year hopefully.

[Jonathan]

[ QUOTE ]
soon - you can order it now...and get it this year hopefully.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll need to at least see it first before dropping that kind of money. Also, I am only interested in a Mark I with the gulf flares, otherwise, no deal. I've heard the SF car will be Mark II at least initially.

[SpyderMike]

yup

[Ian K]

Hersh and Robert,

A few more questions:

What kind of backspacing is possible with 17 inch wheels?

You list 16 and 17 inch wheels - are the BRM pin drives
available in 17 inch? Are the spokes longer? The barrel
wider? A mixture of both? Are regular bolt on hubs still
available (or are the pin drive hubs removable)?

If I placed an order for the quick build, would I have
to remove some panels to relocate the engine and tranny
mounts (I still am thinking about a ZF or maybe a Quaife)?

Thanks,

Ian

[40 Bud]

Congratulations Robert! For those of you lamenting your personal GT40's lose of value consider - Rick Merz sold his car for a lot less than he had in it; as Ron said he sold his partially done RF for a lose; I decided not to sell mine because the market does not support resale at prices that will return our investment. This was all true before Robert re-defined pricing or before Superperformance announced a GT40. These are built for our enjoyment as enthusiasts not for a retail sales outlet. I still think a good quality finished car will bring the same dollars it did before because, in my view the market had already discounted our labor and had already set the price point for finished units at a point below there cost to build.

[Bill D]

I agree with 40bud. The lure of these cars and the re-introduction of the Gt40 from Ford will only help to keep the value of a finished car up.

Bill D

[40 Bud]

Just to add further to my earlier post, I have estimated the following: If I were to option the RF to match my car -i.e.gulf stripe, metallic paint, 4 point belt, limited slip tranny, stainless sheet metal panels, quick remove steering wheel, full colored leather interior (not black)including roof and door surfaces- plus add freight costs, customs duty and freight handling, Calif. sales tax and license fees, I would have to value my GTD at $75,000.00, using Roberts pricing, without the engine. Any takers? It is finished with the engine and tranny installed and with a clean CA registration. Add another $3000.00 for the 330 HP 302 and you are almost at $80,000.

[Tim Kay]

I grin every time I open this thread.

Boy, you guys whining about ‘investment’ this, ‘loss of value’ that, would never make it in the off-road venue. There you can expect to spend $50-$100k US minimum and if you have anything left of it at the time you want to move on then your lucky if you can recoup 50% [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Cost is secondary, just don't pay the absurd. If you do, don’t tell anyone you did [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] I’d say were all into this “bucket of bolts” pretty much the same give or take $10-$15k (respectfully excluding the Original and ERA owners). And who mentions all the times we do something over because we didn’t like the way it turned out the first time for one reason or another [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] I know I can account for at least $10k of changes on my car.

From what I’ve gathered on this forum, everyone here is pretty darn knowledgeable and savvy as to how much various things should cost and I’ll bet no one here has been blatantly screwed in their build (probably wouldn’t be appropriate to mention Lynn’s paint experience [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]). So enjoy, your not selling you car anyway [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As others have mentioned, our passion is building the car, driving the car, tuning the car and being proud to be apart of the GT40 legacy. What's that worth? Hard to put a value on the feelings we get experiencing these cars [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It’s the manufacturers like Logan that I feel bad for. They have to scratch out a living at what the rest of us call a “hobbie”. And “if” they do better than the average bear my hat’s off to them.

BTW, not trying to offend anyone. I truly do grin reading some of this. It makes me realize I’m not the only one stretching every dollar [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[John]

WooHoo!

I am still a ways off from a purchase, but I already had my heart set on an RF... looks even better now!

[ChrisL]

[ QUOTE ]
As others have mentioned, our passion is building the car, driving the car, tuning the car and being proud to be apart of the GT40 legacy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just come in from the garage after chamoising the GT40 in preparation of an early drive tomorrow morning. Just looking at it, I couldn't keep from smiling. How much of my time was taken in thoughts of its exact value in a theoretical market? Zero and Zilch! Well said Tim.

[BarryD]

Spot on Tim.
I too have had a wry smile on my face reading this thread.
Investment...Schminvestment.

You INVEST in real stuff.
You spend money on, and enjoy "our" stuff.

An old Scotsman with very short arms and deep pockeets once told me....Only ever invest in LAND laddie....They ain't going to make any more of the stuff.

Anyway...enjoy !


BD

[Mike Dozier]

Hey Ron !

I see you've ordered another RF.
Spill the beans....specs...color...etc

MikeD

[Ron Earp]

Well, it isn't a well kept secert, that is for sure!

It will be a right hand drive, right hand shift car, yellow in color and painted to match 1025 - yellow in body, twin black stripes, and blacked out headlights, nostrils, window sills, etc. - my favorite GT40. No bubble, no wide flairs though as 1025 has, not my cup of tea.

It'll have a six point cage, pin drive BRMs, 3 master pedal box, AP brakes 6pot front, 4pot rear, leather interior, seats, dash, etc. AC/heater.

Basically the car I wanted to build and I'm sure RF will do a fantastic job with it. Delivery will be before the end of the year and I'm excited about it, looking forward to getting this thing on the road!!

Plans are to get it out to a few track events in early 2006 and, depending on the one lap schedule, enter it for 2006 or 2007 - something I've always wanted to do and if one lap will swing South it'd be fantastic as I could race on a lot of my local tracks. We'll see how that works, that is a ways away!

Ron