RF GT40 pricing....WHAT?

[Robert Logan]

Well the cat did come out of the bag a little early as I hopped to set the release on 1 Feb.

The short and sweet answer is that I have, over the last 8 months, been working with South Africa and in particular a 'young man' called Robbie Senekal in Cape Town. I was told many times about Robbie from MANY sources of his total dedication, his quality of his work and most of all his intregity. Well we now have a shop in Cape Town, is moving into a larger one next week and all is progressing well with the builds of the first TWELVE cars (8 to the US and 4 to the UK).

The first thing I hear is what about quality control, well I have visited Robbie's shop, I have seen first hand his work and that of the staff he is bringing in for the project and have been more than impressed in the standards of the workThe car are NOT changing, they will remain a Roaring Forties GT40 replica and the parts will be the same specifications of the original Roaring Forties. We are using the same break rotors and puting our AP Racing upgrade as STANDARD. We are including all the things that you all want on your cars again as standard. Things like air conditioning, leather, cross-over exhausts and pin drive wheels. We are also including all the 'stuff' required to put the car together such as brackets and belts for the a/c compressor and alternator and the compressor and alternator as well. The engine adaptor, clutch, flywheel, starter motor, evan an engine stabiliser are all included.

I believe that it is easier to tell what is NOT included :

The battery is not included nor is the ignition system (coil and leads). The engine and box are not included. The inlet manifold and carby are not included but the fuel system including pump and filter are included. The fuel system is designed to be easily converted to a full race injection system (a swirl tank is included).

All fluids such as gearbox and engine oils are not included and paint raw materials for the paint job are not included in the quick build or deluxe kits.

I think the easiest thing to say is that it is a COMPLETE kit and I hope that the completeness is considered when you choose your kit to buy.

A full specifications is at our web site at www.roaringforties.com.au

Best wishes,

Robert

[Jim Dewar]

Last Fall it was approx $3200. USD to West Coast Ports

[Dan Weilacher]

Well I guess this makes some people happy.
It kinda makes me ill. Anyone want to buy a deluxe kit that I just started for 50 grand .
I just saw the value of my car and every other kit drop in price by 10,000 to 15,000 US whether your already in the building stage or it's sitting ready to go. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Anyone wanna throw any more dirt in the hole I'm in !

[Bill D]

Thanks

Robert, can you clarify something for me? Your website has the following payment schedule:

10% deposit
40% start of work

Can you tell me approximately when that 40% is due from the time of the deposit?

Thanks

Bill D

[DMatt]

Wow, I kind of feel like Dan Weilacher. I bought my car already under construction and I feel like came out of this ok BUT it does de-value all of the previous cars produced IMHO.I feel like just lost $10,000. It leaves me with a not so good taste in my mouth...

Dan.

[Hershal Byrd]

Roaring Forties has been trying to figure out a way to give the customer a better product without raising prices. They have been losing money because of the Australian dollar vs the U.S. dollar now for two years. They found an opportunity to build the same quality car at a more affordable price and still make a profit for the company instead of going under.
This is just plain good economics for future growth and further benifit to our customers.
Not so long ago I bought a new wide screen TV. three months later I returned to that same store only to find that the TV I purchased had dropped nearly 50%. I also purchase a digital camera last year and that same camera is below half of what I paid. Right now I have been shopping for a new truck. All the dealers are now offering all the 2004's at a subsantial savings. I wonder how bad that makes the guy that bought one a few months ago feel?
As far as the value of the RF kits, they still will command a higher price IMHO as the value and quality of the car is there. Alot will also depend on the builders ability. The engineering of a Roaring Forties is the best I have seen.(IMO) When you have a product that good it simply will not loose value .

Hersh [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mike Dozier]

Dan

I don't think this radically changes what the "final" value of your car will be. IMHO the value of a GT40 depends more on market conditions and the quality
of your build rather than what the initial parts cost was.

It's clear that GT40 replicas in the UK cost less
since there are so many more compared to any other country.
There are still very few used GT40's for sale in the US,
and nice ones seem to command a pretty good price.

Now if someone like Superformance comes through with an amazing car/price for their replica, and the population increases dramatically in the US, then I can see values
of used GT40s coming down. But I can't see that happening
overnight. So enjoy your build...that's 1/2 the fun.

MikeD

[Ian K]

Robert and Hersh,

So, is the Aussie facility going to become R&D? Still
produce? Assemble tunrkey minuses?

My concern is the support model - with Robbie in SA
and Robert and his crew Down Under, is there any
concern in that regard? I mean, Robert won't be
watching over Robbie's shoulders (which may not be
a bad thing [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

Ian

[Dan Weilacher]

I understand Hersh about electronics and new "regular" cars and trucks. I also understand that replica cars are always not the best stable investment. I again see why Robert followed the path he did . We just were unlucky and bought the wrong "stock " at the wrong time. I read this board for over a year before I ordered . I thought a guy could buy a deluxe kit , build it , enjoy it, and if he ever decided to sell make a little or at least break even on his actual expenses. That isnt possible now , and is most likley to a loss of over 10 grand easy. The only other time I lost money with corvettes or race cars that fast is in this picture. Neither time felt very good, but tomarrow is another day [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
PS its a good thing I built that bar in my shop.

[Mark Worthington]

Dan(s),

I can sort of understand where you're coming from, as I feel a little buyer's remorse myself...if only I'd waited a couple years to buy my RF. If only this...if only that... If grandma had balls she'd be grandpa! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You can't blame Robert for selling his product at the advertised price; if he had hinted of a price drop then he would have had no business. It also looks like the cost of some of the extras has increased a little too...EFI and Gulf flares now cost more than they did. Just continue to enjoy the build and the expanding community of RF builders and owners.

[Pantera1889]

I personally am very happy to hear this.I had ruled RF out as a viable candidate because of the price after shipping to the US.Now I will have to rethink.


Robert: Is the price for the Gulf flares installed on the body or seperate?
Is there room to use a bigger rear tire than what is on the cars in the pictures on the website without the Gulf flares? Is it just me or do they seem very small?
Thanks,
Ron

[Bill D]

I, too, would like a 12" wide rim for use with the Gulf flares. Is this workable?

Bill D

[Bill Hara]

Dan

I know the feeling; you are investing a lot of money into a hobby, probably realising a dream and you have rationalised the expense against your desire to have that dream. When you see/hear that your "sacrifices" are costing you more than someone else, your rationalisations are harder to justify/accept... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].
The bright side to all this is that this change will ensure that RF stay in business and hence will be able to continue with their great customer service and support, instead of disappearing and leaving a lot of builders in the lurch.

I also hope that any increase in RF profits may trickle into price reductions for the benefit of current builders (wishful thinking??) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regards

Bill.

[DMatt]

I can't fault Robert for doing what he had to do to survive. But it still hurts. Tomorrow is indeed another day...lets just hope grandma dosen't grow a 3rd nut. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Dan.

[Dan Weilacher]

I CONGRADULATE ROBERT, I'm glad he's not closing his doors. I'm glad if I need a upright or something in the future he will be there . Dont get me wrong by my statements. But when something like this happens it does change the market and some people benefit and others get hurt . Time will tell if, and how much this affects other GT40 builders , especially the new crop in the USA.
I have my car , I'm going to enjoy building it either way. One thing Ive learned over the years after being around race tracks, sports cars and the restoration buisness,,,It's always easier to see someone else take a big hit , than yourself.
Well out to the shop for now , I wish all new RF buyers well with your purchase and hope to someday hook up with a bunch of GT's . regards, Dan

[Dan Weilacher]

One other thing I am wondering,,, If a person bought a partial kit, then needs the modules to finish ,,,it doesnt say anything about it on the site that I found.I would guess they would get a big savings on those as well, which would be a good and fair thing to do.

[norman falkiner]

Great news.Robert has pulled off a real coup with this. Robbie Senekal has been mentioned at length on this site connected with Superformance, and he's now in the RF camp. It will ensure that RF maintains its high stature in the replica market and underpin the ongoing viability of RF. When the dust settles I think it will be seen as a real win/win for existing owners and bring the dream of a RF closer for many. Regards

[Robert Logan]

Hershal's comments were very true in that we (read my wife and I) were supporting all the US and UK kits. Our competitors were / are building kits in South Africa and the export grants and cost of labour in particular were making life very hard for us. I was left with the options of raising the prices by almost 20% or giving away the US and UK market or doing something else. I believe that the increase in pricing would have distroyed the market for us in the USA and the UK and I made a consciencious attempt to "look outside the square" and maintain the market. I was told about Robbie Senekal by a close friend Chris Melia and got in contact with him. I also went to Prague in Checkoslovakia (I can not spell) and these discussions are still under way.

I noticed the difference between the prices or cars in the UK and the USA and I have set the prices in both these countries. The difference is in the shipping and taxes costs and this is why they have been excluded from the costs. You the customer will pay EXACTLY the cost of shipping and taxes for your cars, this I have agreed to with Hershal and Rick in their respective areas.

I have also agreed the level of commissions at all points and to everybodies credit no one has been greedy and this is the ONLY reason that we can offer the car at the prices we are now offering the cars at. Please compare our prices against ALL that is offered at the moment. Compare the completion or otherwise and then the 'bottom line', I am sure my car will come out on top.

Regarding quality, I have already commented on the quality of Robbie Senekal but I have also agreed with Robbie that I will inspect ALL 2005 cars before they are shipped from South Africa. This was my only concern. I treat ALL my cars as my babies and it has been very difficult to allow my children to go to school and no longer to be under my TOTAL care. Robbie was 100% behind me with this and was more than happy to accomodate my requests.

Regarding the Australian factory, I was a total of 17 cars behind just before Christmas. 12 have been sent to South Africa and 5 are left to be built in Australia. 4 of the 5 are for Australian customers and the last is a race car for the UK. Yes we will continue to use the Australian facility for ALL R&D and when proved the supply of those parts will go to both Prague and Cape Town. Parts like the MoTeC injection will still be supplied from Australia for all cars and I do not expect that this will change.

Lastly, will the savings pass on to customers here in Australia. South Africa will become a supplier of parts for me in Australia and all the prices of parts will be examined and if possible sourced from the most competive supplier. I firmly believe that price savings will pass on to Australia.

Best wishes to all,

Robert

[Chris_K]

This is great news for those considering purchase. Had I the money available, I think my choice just got a lot easier.

For all those who have already purchased a kit, I understand the feeling (and have had it myself) of "oh man I just got screwed." I feel for you but then again, you already have your 40. I am still waiting for mine.

Beyond that, reality is that this is a hobby. This is how we have chosen to spend our spare time and money. No one pursues a hobby to make money, its purpose is to provide a fulfilling way to spend time doing something you enjoy (like hiding out in your garage).

You can argue that Robert and Hersh are making money off this and such, but I sincerely doubt that they are pulling in major bankroll (no insult or offense implied to either of them). Robert sounds like he made a sound financial decision as someone in charge of a business to enable Roaring Forties to support US and UK markets more effectively and to be around long term.

For me, the proper descriptor for all this is "hobby." These are gorgeous cars meant to be driven and enjoyed. The moment it becomes an investment, the passion disappears and the enjoyment is replaced by financial disappointment. Dan's photo of his disintegrating racecar is the perfect analogy: do it to enjoy it, not because it's a smart thing to do!

Buy them, build them, drive them, share them... Make me jealous as hell til I can afford mine. Then I'll return the favor.

Chris

PS - And please post a few more pics in the builder's section.