GT40 in Troy, MI. Classic Auto Showplace

FRPGUY · 10-29-06, 11:46 AM

There is a GT40 MK? for sale at a place called Classic Auto Showplace in Troy Michigan. They don't show a chassis number. Anyone know anything about this car?

Gary Kadrmas · 10-29-06, 03:06 PM

Here is the link: Classic Auto Showplace: in Grand Rapids, MI

Shows some pretty good photos. Does not list a price.

Gary

Lynn · 10-29-06, 03:58 PM

I am familiar with the car. It is not an original, so you will find no chassis number. That said, it was constructed to be a very close, but I was never told the exact origin of the chassis. As mentioned in the description, the owner/builder was very adament that many of the parts used on the car were, indeed, original or NOS GT40 parts. (I have not personally inspected this car, but did post some images for the owner who was offering his services here to build exhaust systems some time back.) While the description here (or the owner for that matter) never makes an explicit claim to originality, it is not, no matter how much one may wish it to be so, an original, numbered chassis GT40.

As to concourse history, it is a very well sorted "recreation" and, if you have read many of the real/replica discussions here, you have no doubt learned that what is considered real/recreation/replica and what is allowed to participate in vintage races or concourse shows often has a lot to do with how well connected the owner is. It may sound as though I am being disparaging of the car, but I am not. It is a VERY nice car that I would be proud to own.

Regards,
Lynn

jimbo · 10-29-06, 05:03 PM

It's a nice looking vehicle, but obviously not an original car. I think their ad is not as honest as it could be, though, as they imply that it is the real period piece. They would be better off just stating the answers to all the questions they're going to get asked anyway- or ought to be asked by any discerning buyer.

Maybe the negative's flipped..or the steering wheel's on the wrong side...

diecast18 · 10-29-06, 08:51 PM

I have met the owner before. It is an ERA GT40. Yes very well made but the owner is deceptive in his marketing. He has had it at classic car shows and tried to pass it off as an original. It was even judged as an original until it was pointed out that its a replica.

Mitch D · 10-30-06, 01:51 AM

Indeed, just like one would expect from a "used car salesman," the story on the site does seem to sneek around the issue:

"It has been reconstructed utilizing extensive N.O.S. and spare GT40 components and finished with modern fabricated pieces. "

Seems to me, anyone buying a replica would certainly be interested in knowing it is an ERA. Yet this guy refers to it only as a "ford." I emailed asking for info on the chassis manufacturer and asking price. I'll post any info I hear.

MD

I LOVE GT40- Paolo · 10-30-06, 03:58 AM

also this (nice ) car shows how high is the level of our replicas.
Personally I think that too many owner /builders finally believe the replica is AS an original and want other people thrust the same (surely in places where the 40 has never been seen as Italy that will be possible at all..).

And for also too many reasons I think replicas of this particular car can be really nicer that true originals.
The forum is always useful to discover eventual frauds or amazing asking prices over unknown history vehicles

Paolo

FRPGUY · 10-30-06, 07:41 AM

Thanks Lynn and guys for the info.I heard from a friend that stopped in to see the car, that they want 250K, Pretty high price for an ERA, but who knows, maybe it's worth it. What are the prices doing now anyway, are they going up or down?

Ron Earp · 10-30-06, 08:31 AM

That seems to be an extremely high price, no matter what the make. There have been ERAs listed here, granted not as nice as that one, that sold for $72k. And a host of them in the $75k to $85k over the years that were closer in specification. Heck, a Safir went for less than this money not that long ago.

Most of these exotic car outfits eventually advertise their wares on Ebay at some time or another, might see it there in weeks/months. My guess is the car won't move at 1/2 the price, but you never know on these things.

Steve Briscoe · 10-30-06, 09:04 AM

Looks like a great car and it raises good questions related to originality and corresponding price. I guess the principle at play here is "charge what the market will bear". It will be interesting to see if they get close to the asking price. If so, that will add great value to the good work builders on this forum are doing with their cars and will create a great amount of additional interest in the 40.

On a comparative basis, Superformance is a GT40 Continuation with corresponding licenses and 1966 titles. By the time one gets a Keith Craft or Roush motor in with an RBT tranny, the price is about 100K US.

Mark Clapp · 10-30-06, 09:44 AM

Amazing that any concours judged event would consider a left hand drive, non-MKIII car as original.

David Briggs · 10-30-06, 10:14 AM

Mark, that is a good observation, what is the qualifier to be a Judge at one of these events?
Dave

SpeedQuest · 10-30-06, 10:18 AM

Question: Were any of the original GT40's ever made as LHD?

diecast18 · 10-30-06, 10:21 AM

Here are some shots I found of it a few years ago. Yes its very well done, but seeing that the Superformance GT40 is closer to the original, why would anyone pay more for an ERA.

chuck smith · 10-30-06, 11:50 AM

do not get me wrong as I am a big ERA fan,however this car is no nicer than my CAV and is nowhere near original and is thus way over priced. Given todays market I would take an SPF or CAV over an ERA,that is of course a subjective opinion.

Mark Clapp · 10-30-06, 12:39 PM

SpeedQuest, I don't think any original GT40s were LHD except for a few of the Mark IIIs.

Mitch D · 10-30-06, 12:44 PM

I actually heard from Classic Auto vis-a-vis my request for information.

I wrote asking: "This Appears To Be A Very Nice Gt40 Replica. Can You Provide Any Specifics Such As the Chassis Manufacturer? Also, Most Importantly, What Is the Asking Price? (note that their website oddly made every word in my post initial-capital)

They replied: Thanks for your email, however this is NOT a kit car. It is a 1966 chassis, and the car was rebuilt with nos parts. It was used by Ford in
the 'clay' room when they were building the new GTs, and is signed by
Carroll Shelby. If we can assist you, the price is just above $250,000.
Regards, ClassicAuto Showplace"

So that's their official word on the car. I'd have to say, I agree with the earlier post - I didn't think there were any Mk1 lefties out there. I studied the pics on the ERA site and the underside of the body-work certainly does look like the ERA. However, the pics from ClassicAuto make it hard to discern anything else.

Mitch D

Ian K · 10-30-06, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdemyanek

I actually heard from Classic Auto vis-a-vis my request for information.

I wrote asking: "This Appears To Be A Very Nice Gt40 Replica. Can You Provide Any Specifics Such As the Chassis Manufacturer? Also, Most Importantly, What Is the Asking Price? (note that their website oddly made every word in my post initial-capital)

They replied: Thanks for your email, however this is NOT a kit car. It is a 1966 chassis, and the car was rebuilt with nos parts. It was used by Ford in
the 'clay' room when they were building the new GTs, and is signed by
Carroll Shelby. If we can assist you, the price is just above $250,000.
Regards, ClassicAuto Showplace"

So that's their official word on the car. I'd have to say, I agree with the earlier post - I didn't think there were any Mk1 lefties out there. I studied the pics on the ERA site and the underside of the body-work certainly does look like the ERA. However, the pics from ClassicAuto make it hard to discern anything else.

Mitch D

Wow, at this point I'd ask them what the chassis number is, and if they know
that it is illegal to advertise a replica as an original - that would be false advertising.

Ian

Mitch D · 10-30-06, 01:37 PM

Ian - you ready my mind, I did reply back to them saying that I found their info very interesting - I noted that I thought all Mk I's were right-hand-drive. I mentioned in my email to them that someone identified the pictures as an ERA, noting that ERA is a very fine replica builder in MA. Last, I also asked for the chassis number.

I'm not betting on a reply from them; I give it less than a 50% chance.

If it's not "real," then it's beyond me how someone whould try to perpetrate such a story. If someone's going to plunk down over 250k USD, don't they think they need to show some verifiable provenance?

MD