I Got Screwed Royally!!!

Bill D · 03-05-07, 09:15 PM

I bought a ZF transaxle about 14 months ago from someone on the east coast. He said it was freshly rebuilt and wanted $7K. Thinking it was a good deal, I bought it.

I decided to take it to RBT Transmissions here in southern California to have them tear it down and inspect it - just to play it safe.

Well, when I brought it in, Lloyd noticed that the case was cracked in three places. He said I needed a new case ($850 + labor).

It gets worse...

Lloyd called today. They disassembled the transaxle and found a nightmare inside. He said the trans would never have worked had I tried to use it. It's completely shot on the inside. When I told him how much I paid for it, he said I got f***ed royally.

So it looks like I'm out $7K. I'll know more tomorrow as they were closong for the day.

Now I know how you RF guys felt when RL took your money.

Big-Foot · 03-05-07, 09:18 PM

Bill - That sounds terrible....

I would have to think that you would have some sort of legal recourse...

Bill D · 03-05-07, 09:19 PM

I wish there was Randy. But it's "Buyer Beware" when you deal in cash transactions

Big-Foot · 03-05-07, 09:23 PM

Get a full damage assessment from Lloyd and what it would take to bring you into serviceable condition. If any place can do it it's them...

I've been hozed on long distance transactions too but not to that degree..

I hope that the expensive parts can still be used... I feel terribly for you pal.. I've lived every step of your Cobra and GT40 builds..

Scott Calabro · 03-05-07, 09:35 PM

Bill if the seller is a member here let us know who it is !

They deserve a tune up...

S

Bill D · 03-05-07, 09:40 PM

Wasn't through here. I bought it through the Cobra forum

Scott Calabro · 03-05-07, 09:51 PM

That stinks, your 40 is sooooo..... Bitchin'

I think we should all take up a collection for Bill, if all the members tossed in a few bucks it would be like an insurance claim. Don't be proud Bill, PM me with an address and I'll mail you a check. You deserve it after all that work...

Best Regards,
Scott

Scott · 03-05-07, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill D

Wasn't through here. I bought it through the Cobra forum

See if he'll do anything about it and if not then out him. No point in letting others get hosed by someone like that. If it's that bad he knew damn well what he was selling.

Doug Sainlar · 03-05-07, 11:09 PM

I say we take up a collection so we can send Spike and Lefty to talk to the guy who ripped off our BillD!!!

Dugly

Dean Lampe · 03-05-07, 11:18 PM

I am on the cobra forum all the time like Scott. If I can help just tell me who it was.

Pete. · 03-06-07, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill D

I wish there was Randy. But it's "Buyer Beware" when you deal in cash transactions

Not if you know where they live and have a couple of big mates with baseball bats.

Bad luck

jwelter · 03-06-07, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

Not if you know where they live and have a couple of big mates with baseball bats.

Bad luck

This actually works...I had a buddy ripped off in a similar fashion on a "fresh pro built 5.4L modular long block" that was a pile of junk. It was long distance and he was getting nowhere with the seller - until he arrived at the sellers house one night with the engine in the back of his truck and two 350Lb brawlers with him. Things got resolved real fast.

A lot of people think the internet allows them the opportunity to get away with things they've never try "in the real world face to face" so make it up close and personal and things tend to work themselves out.

John

JohnC · 03-06-07, 05:50 AM

I'm an engineer, not an attorney, but I think even an idle discussion about visiting a guy with a couple of bruisers armed with baseball bats is bordering on some pretty serious stuff. If it would actually happen after a discussion like this, and the guy were seriously injured, I don't know what would be the result......

Alternately, I've seen (on other forums) members screw other members in a deal like this, and the forum membership came down so hard on the offending member, that he was forced to make things right for the other guy in order to save his reputation, and in some cases, his business.

Bill, if I were you, I'd be in discussions with the owners/Admins over at the other forum about putting this in the public domain, and let this guy get publicly roasted for what he's done, then see if he's man enough to want to save his reputation, and make things right for you.

I think that's one of the great things about these public Internet forums, you can get a situation resolved without huge expense (or attorneys), even if the other party is across the country, or across the world from you. It may take a week or a month of posting and responding, but the key is to keep your posts factual and nonemotive, and make sure the evidence is indisputable.

John

Russ Noble · 03-06-07, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cribbj

I'm an engineer, not an attorney, but I think even an idle discussion about visiting a guy with a couple of bruisers armed with baseball bats is bordering on some pretty serious stuff. If it would actually happen after a discussion like this, and the guy were seriously injured, I don't know what would be the result......

John

I'll take one guess...... he'd rapidly become really keen to refund the money!!!!

David Morton · 03-06-07, 06:55 AM

Bill,
really sorry to hear this.
Just move on.
Dave

I LOVE GT40- Paolo · 03-06-07, 07:06 AM

damn..is ugly to hear such.

And I noted those things can easy happen over internet transations.
I am a commerciant, almost down here in Italy all my buyers wants to see me in face when I sell something, and if any problem comes...I will do the impossible to solve, cause buyer satisfaction comes first of all, at least for me.
I am hearing really too many problems from ebayers or similar ones,and also on very small amounts.

....and only if I sell scale models.

sad for this Bill, u'll have all my comprehension

Paolo

Bill Musarra · 03-06-07, 08:12 AM

Bill,
I am sorry to hear this happened to you. You taken such care to get things done right. I have to agree and suggest very strongly that the pressure you bring to bear on the individual will do the most good. You will get some satisfaction one way or the other. Then again if the guy was getting out of the replica scene, then no good will come of it, short of letting the Cobra guys know that one of their own is not on the up and up.
Having had problems of one sort or the other long distance, I feel I can impart a little knowledge to the forum members on this subject. If you buy expensive parts(see 930 Saga), or even whole cars from afar. Member or not, use an ESCROW service.
There are several out there. When I bought my car from a then member of the forum, I used http://www.escrow.com for the transaction. It works something like this. Once you and the seller/buyer agree on a price, the money is deposited with the service. Both parties contact the company and list their banking information which is kept confidential. Agreements are made(or should be) about shipping, who pays for what, who pays for return shipping if something goes wrong, and the lenght of inspection. Usually 3-5 days. The escrow company has links and information much like ebay about when shipped, next step for you to take, etc. All pretty straight forward. The money is deposited with the company. The company notifies the seller and then is told to ship the merchandise. Once recieved the company is notified of delivery and then the inspection period begins. You should inspect the merchandise or have a qualified individual inspect it. If the merchandise is acceptable, the company is advised of it and the money is released to the seller.
If the inspection is not suitable, then the company is notified and the alternate plan(s) are instituted. The merchabdise is either shipped back to the seller as pre agreed to. The equipment is repaired if agreed upon, or whatever arrangement is agreed upon by both parties.
The key here, is that the money can not be released to the seller unless both parties agree. The money can not be returned to the buyer unless both parties agree. So if something goes wrong, you have a stong position to play. Most of these services have an arbitration board that handles disputes. The important thing here is to make sure there are alternate plans in place if the deal goes south. Takes a litle thought, and some times a little creativity. Then you are covered no matter which way it goes.
This saved me a bunch of money when I bougth my car from a chap from Australia. The engine was a freshly rebuilt 351 Windsor bored 30 over with a mild cam and a dual weber carb. Problem was, he let it sit out in the rain and there was water in the engine with considerable damage done. He had also shipped the car with the engine and trans in the car, not outside the car as instructed. The car would have had to be shipped out of the country, motor and trans removed, and then reshipped into the country. Fortunately for me I had him put some race stickers on the car and I had it brought in as a race car. That issue and a few other ones kept the car in customs impound for an extra week, resulting in some stiff storage fees. This allowed me some negotiating room and I got a refund of over $1500 on the car, which came out of the escrow account.
This has been a painful and expensive lesson for Bill and I know he really is hurting over this one, as most of us don't have that kind of money to just throw it away. Hopefully some is salvagable.
I wrote a nice article for the GTD group on buying a used of partialy built replica and I would like to make it available to the forum. It would work for expensive parts as well. I don't know how that would work, but I would like it to be available to new members or to whomever. If their is a way to post it on the forum so it could be read anytime, would be great. Ron would know how best to do it if it can be done at all. There is a lot of good advise in it as it was written after I bought my car and is based on the many pitfalls I fell into along the way. Eveything from buying, inspecting, shipping, and oh yes, paying for it. If any one would like a copy just let me know and I will send it out.
Bill, I feel your pain. Sorry it had to happen to such an outstanding peson.

Bill

Dutton · 03-06-07, 10:46 AM

Bill,

I'm very sorry to learn about all this.

As a charter member of the "RF Mates," I strongly urge you to contact the individual involved and present them their options, whether that be a full refund or to pony up for the 'fresh rebuild' as was quoted in the first place.

If that isn't successful, Scott and Dean may well be in an excellent position to help this character decide to do the right thing - and their offer is one to take them up on. Being that the members of our hobby/community is an extremely talented, experienced AND supportive group, they may well be able to help someone see the error of their ways.

Failure for this individual to step up and honor their end of the contract means, to me, that they well deserve the public exposure as the thief that they have -at this point- repeatedly proven themselves to be.

As tempting as it would be to contract with a couple of 'consultants' for any adjustment and/or collection of the funds, David's comments are spot on.

Keep the chin up,

T.