Edumacate me on SPF-CAV-RCR?

[charlie c]

Hello geniuses! Long-time listener, first-time caller here.... I've got things like a Lotus Elise, a 70 Cuda 440 convertible, 70 Charger R/T, Magnum SRT8 and other fun toys, but I have learned that all quests for the quintissential "fast car" will sooner or later lead to a GT40 in some form!

First off, you guys have done some amazing builds and there are tons of lovely cars on here.... respect!

So, it looks like I'll be after a high-quality accurate-appearing replica with minor mod-cons, for twice-weekly canyon drives and bi-monthly track events. I've perused this forum extensively, and learned a great deal from your build diaries and such (thanks for going to the trouble to post them!), but a few questions remain... I will outline my thoughts, and if any care to chime in, light 'em up!

1 - I am looking for the most complete car possible, all the way up to a painted roller. I am not good with body and paint! This would be SPF or CAV, right?

2 - Accurate body shape and high-quality panel gaps etc. are of primary concern, as is original (or improved original?) anti-dive / anti-squat suspension geometry. Who's in front here?

3 - I prefer mono to spaceframe for accuracy's sake, but I have no opinion yet about steel vs. aluminum other than I think aluminum is a sexy idea.

4 - I like the idea of a steel roof (SPF?) and other fancy OEM-like items like the CAV uprights and other trick pieces that may deviate from original for the sake of safety and strength.

5 - If I stumble across the right car already built, I will snap it up in a second and save myself considerable torture, especially if it already has CA tags and SB100 status, but I am prepared to go the long route if it will get me the right car. I am not in a terrible hurry per se.

It appears that the big three right now are SPF, CAV, and RCR. (Are the SPF cars the only ones with continuation chassis numbers?) If you were an inexperienced newbie with insufficient shop space, living in SoCal with some access to amazing paint+body and engine shops, looking to get a top-quality replica of chassis 1075 going for street as well as track use....

...what would you do?

Opinions welcomed!

Also, if anybody is in the LA area (Woodland Hills) and has a car built / in progress / for sale, I'd LOVE to come see and hear all about it!

PS. Here's some of my rides:

 

[Mike Dozier]

Hi Charlie

Welcome. I agree...all three options mentioned are great choices.
And if you have the ability to buy a turnkey...that's even better since
it gets you on the road sooner.

My suggestion is to get a ride in each of the three before making
a decision. Being in So Cal I believe there are or will soon be running cars
in your area. And since you're not in a hurry, that makes even easier !
Good luck

PS...love the Cuda !

MikeD

 

[Ian K]

You also might want to consider ERA - a long wait, but many feel it is
truly worth it.

As it stands, all of the ones mentioned can provide rollers with paint and
1075 flares.

Here's an ERA Gulf car: Garrett's GT
RCR: Race-Car-Replicas - 586-557-6460
CAV: http://www.cav.co.za/images/client gallery/12.JPG

I have yet to see an SPF Mk1B Gulf car - but it should be any day now.

Ian

 

[Sandy]

Welcome Charlie!

I'm down in Studio City as a fellow inhabitant of the SFV. Have you had your cars down to Bob's in Burbank? I could think I have seen the Green cuda. You should talk to all of the distributors of cars your interested in, all will likely get you to a package that will be body work complete. That was one of the things that I wanted too, complete paint/body, the rest of the fun stuff left to me. I also wanted a more modern treatment of some of the suspension and chassis, for me the RCR fit the bill, but really depends on what you want.

Hopefully will have my car in a couple of weeks your welcome for a drive by. Also BillD is in paint now too, and I think a few other non RCR's are in the area.

Again Welcome to admitting the sickness of the GT40 addiction!

Sandy

 

[WesS]

charlie,
i am in long beach. i went with rcr for several reasons. i liked the alum chassis, and after i visited fran's shop, i was convinced his was the best quality. also his lead time was the best.
after i ordered the car i found out fran has a secret: i hate to admit this but i am not assembling my car myself. fran has a buddy who will assemble the car for you. yep, its not that i am lazy (ok, maybe just a tad) but i don't have the time. this way, i will have the car ready to go sooner than if i had assembled it myself. reasonable price too.
when i get it, you'll be welcome to come by and take a peek.
wes

 

[David Briggs]

Hi Charlie, welcome to the group. I have a CAV that is SB 100 registered, and is highly modified and well equipped. I might sell it(I have some ideas for the replacement 40).
I am in San Diego, email is [email protected].
Dave

 

[charlie c]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies and generous offers to check out cars! I am working like a maniac for the next month or so, but after that some car-time is allotted... although I do try to make it to the sunday gathering in woodland hills every week <www.supercardsunday.com> and Bob's at least once a month...

After a bit more research, it appears that:

1 - SPF is the most accurate and complete, with original-style steel mono chassis, and is of the highest quality and authenticity (steel roof spider etc.). Body shape and finish seems to be universally loved. It appears that there are fewer SPF cars around than others, is this true?

2 - CAV is the more modern, high-tech interpretation of the classic, with deviations from original here and there for the sake of improvements in handling and strength. The stainless mono chassis differs from the original here and there, and the roof panels are glass instead of metal. Roll bar more easily added than in SPF cars. Top-quality body and paint available. Lots of CAV cars out there.

3 - RCR are the new guys who are going at it with a vengeance and tons of skill, knowledge and enthusiasm. The aluminum mono chassis is fairly different to the originals, but every piece is rethought for max strength and performance. Most affordable of the three, and many RCR customers seem to have built a few cars before and are not afraid to plumb brake lines (unlike me!). Typical RCR builds seem to require more sourcing of bits and pieces and fabbing brackets than the other two, but this is part of the appeal. Obviously Fran has his act together and the level of communication he has with this community is awesome, and just what you'd want from the provider of a car you're going to finish yourself.

Am I reading the situation right?

 

[John Lowe]

Charlie

I am fairly new to the 40 also but read the situation very much as you do. Unfortunately the SPF prices itself out of the equation in the UK even as a roller from Hawk Cars.

Anyhow I have the time (and the desire) to want to build my own car so have CAV and RCR firmly in the frame. I have yet to see either car in the flesh, something I hope to fix pretty soon. As an engineer I can see the merits of both approaches and from what can be gleaned from various web site's and both appear well made. What could tip it for me is the amount of "specialist fettling" (like fabricating and glassing in of headlight mounts etc) as opposed to "cut and assemble" is required to complete the car. Let us all know what your final choice is and why you made it. I shall do likewise because this seems to be a topic of continual interest especially to first timers.

Good luck

John

Grow old disgracefully and mostly sideways

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Charlie,

please call the shop and get the info from the source...

For instance ALL our cars/kits leave with brake line plumbing already installed.....CNC bent with residual valves etc etc etc...

There are different levels of RCR kit including TK minus and as such some customers choose to source more of their own parts...

Regards

 

[charlie c]

Sorry, Fran, if I got that wrong... I'm just learning here... Since I'm still at the sniffing around stage, I didn't want to call and waste your phone time on tire kicker questions.... I'm sure anxious to see an RCR in the flesh, because for many reasons other than the car, RCR is attractive! See how quick Fran checked the forum?

When Wes gets his car, I will take him up on the offer to check it out. The only drag in Kali is the SB100 situation, which makes Dave's pre-registered CAV (if he decides to sell) attractive!

Dave - Is your CAV mkI or mkII? Gulf flares? What color? How many nostrils?

 

[Fran Hall RCR]

Charlie,

no harm done....I have just gotten home from the Detroit Autorama so I am playing catch up from three days of showtime...

I talk to people daily that are years out from purchasing, so feel free...

 

[Steve Briscoe]

After a bit more research, it appears that:

1 - SPF is the most accurate and complete, with original-style steel mono chassis, and is of the highest quality and authenticity (steel roof spider etc.). Body shape and finish seems to be universally loved. It appears that there are fewer SPF cars around than others, is this true?

For all the reasons you list and the fact that SPF is licensed by Safir is why I chose SPF. It's as close to a traditional GT40 as you can get without the price. IMO, it's like buying the new retro Camaro when it comes out. Lots of different parts from all over the world when compared to the original ones from Detroit and the 60s, but it's still a Camaro because it's licensed by GM. Likewise, the SPF is a GT40. It's just not a 1966 GT40. Having said that, I also chose SPF because I don't have the time to order and build one of the cars offered by a GT40s.com sponsor. That's what I really want to do but in all likelihood, it will be a long time before it happens.

 

[Dean Lampe]

I think for $10,000 Safir will sell me a tag for my RCR. To me that doesn't make the car worth a dollar more. Today endorsements aren't about continuing "the series" but rather making a buck. I'll bet they would sell me a tag to make my Excursion the official Safir/Shelby tow vehicle reproduction. :grinf:

I am not taking anything away from SPF, they have a topnotch car. But in my opinion this continuation stuff is crap. If it is not original, then you have a replica. There are definately different degree's of replicas but still a copy of the original.

Don't shoot me, just sharing my opinion.

 

[Scott Calabro]

Hey Dean,

You are 100% correct, if its not a GT40, ITS A REPLICA. No matter what you spend. However I think that over the long term the SPF will provide a better chance at a positive return on investment. That is not an issue with me because I will build a car just for the fun of the hobby, but for some, especially when the entire nut is going to be 100k +, the potential of not being upside down, further on down the road is a valid issue.
It currently seems that won't be in issue for me !!!

How is the build going?

Best,
Scott

 

[SylvanSRT]

I think there were a few companies allowed to make gt40s for Ford(in the 60's): Shelby American, JW Engineering, Holman-Moody. And now Safir GT40 Spares has the name rights

 

[Mike Dozier]

Continuation/serialization issue aside.....SPF is easily the most "true"
replica out there ...if for other other reason than the steel roof.

That's not to say it's the BEST replica...because as we've tried to make
PERFECTLY CLEAR....that's a personal choice based on individual needs.

But anyone who doesn't appreciate what Jimmy Price has accomplished
is in denial.

MikeD

 

[Randy V]

There are other GT40 kits out there;
* Turn Ten Racing
* MDA
* GT40 Australia
* Tornado

All are very nice and unique in their own way.

In my mind - none of these cars or kits available today can be considered a true GT40 - They are all replicas.

That said - The original GT40, as beautiful as it was (in all versions), was not without flaws..

Every kit manufacturer has taken some degree of license with the replilcation of the chassis & suspension and in literally all cases (to my knowledge), the chassis' and suspensions available today are far superior to the originals from not only a safety perspective but from geometry and asthetics.

It is my feeling that had today's technology and alloys been available in 1964+, the GT40's we love today would have been probably quite close to what the replica manufacturers are selling today..

I've made my decision based on a number of parameters;

1) Support
2) Quality (both perceived and demonstrated)
3) Safety (while subjective to the type of potential damage)
4) Asthetics (it's got to look cool)

To Charlie's original post - There are many companies that can take delivery of a kit and finish it precisely to your specifications for you. You will be the first and original owner of your creation.
PM me for more details if interested.

 

[charlie c]

Mmmm.... yes. I had visited the websites for Turn Ten, MDA, GT40 Aus, and Tornado, and kind of kept looking for various reasons (correct any faulty assumptions!):

Turn Ten - spaceframe. very new company/car.
Tornado - spaceframe. not local.
GT40 Australia - spaceframe. not local.
MDA - spaceframe. not local.

I like the look of the MDA rollcage/roof support thingie, but I think my taste runs toward a finely crafted monococque, one that almost seems a shame to cover in bodywork!

I had kind of written off spaceframe cars for reasons of authenticity... should I reconsider? Forgive my lack of knowledge, but does anyone care to run down the relative pros and cons of mono vs. spaceframe chassis in GT40 replica applications?

 

[Dimi Terleckyj]

Hi to all
In my short period of association with this web site a lot of threads and comments have been made regarding the authenticity and association with the "real GT40" by the various ""REPLICA"" manufacturers.
Given there were so many variations on the original GT40 back in those days
what really is the definitive GT40 ???

The real value of any of our replica's lies in the quality of the base body and chassis to some degree but more so in the time, effort and detail to quality that we as builders put into the finish of our cars.

If we devote the time and effort and concentrate on detail, finish and safety the value of our cars far surpasses just a monetary value and will provide us with many years of pleasure and enjoyment.

The fact that it is a REPLICA does not even come into the equation.

Our cars are very much more than the ""real"" cars could ever be to each and every one of us that have spent the time, blood ,sweat and tears to produce our own works of art.

As has been stated on this site before " When someone asks me if it's real I just reach out and touch it and reply yes it's real"

In the end my GT40 that I built will be worth more to me than any other car could ever be.

The above are just my own humble opinions and views.

Dimi

 

[Allan Feldman]

The variants of the GT40 defined what a GT40 was though envolution of design to be competitive and win races. And they all had one thing in common which the replica community cannot use they were Ford GT40's.
As John Horseman says in his book 'Racing in the Rain' the last original Ford GT40 manufactured and completed at Slough worked out at chassis number P1084. After that comes original parts cars completed after the racing in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's. Tennant chassis. Continuation numbered cars SAFIR, Holman and Moody and now SPF? Personally I see nothing wrong in calling a car a Replica. After all its the sincerest form of flattery.
It when the money and value factor come into it. And people try to link non originals cars in with originals to increase their value then I have issues.
In my humble opinion if a GT40 manufactured now with all the modern technology and for the same sort of cost is not equal or better than a 40 year original then something is wrong.
Comparisons except for fun are completely meanless. An example that comes to mind are the 0-60 times and top speeds with modern cars. When the Le Mans cars were detuned to last the 24 hour race.
Owners can do what ever they want with their cars. I am happiest when I see the joy in someones face in owning a replica forty or building one. Its the enjoyment and meeting people in the GT40 community that is why I am a member of the GT40 Enthusiasts Club. And of course the cars themselves!
Regards Allan