One-stop shopping?

Mike Drew · 06-30-07, 12:58 PM

Hi guys,

With all the GT40 replicas out there (either on the road, or under construction), it would seem to me that there would be a business that made its business in supplying GT40 bits. After all, there are several Cobra parts specialists, about a dozen Pantera parts shops, zillions of shops for Mustangs and Corvettes, and undoubtedly specialty shops for Ferraris and Jaguars and what have you.

So, is there such a place for GT40s, one that either exclusively or largely deals in GT40 parts? If not, I wonder why not? It seems to me it would take some homework for the vendor to come up with the sources for the various bits, but once that was done, wouldn't it be nice to just open a catalog to order parts, such as windows, mirrors, wheels, interior parts, etc. and so forth?

What am I missing? Is the GT40 market still too small to support such an enterprise?

Ron Earp · 06-30-07, 01:37 PM

I think it'd be a tough road to hoe. There is such a diversity of methods that companies have taken to produce their GT40 replicas that a great many things that will fit one will not fit another. Many things are universally different - uprights, adapter plates, latches, trim, dashes, shifters, mounts, headers, etc.

Even with some of the small production factory efforts like CAV and Superformance there are differences throughout the line over time that are significant. There are even larger differences for example GTD replicas that were produced in large numbers and assembled mostly by owners and have numerous owner developed or small shope developed upgrades and changes.

If you are talking about specific original GT40 reproduction items like mirrors badges, steering wheels, switches, knobs, vents, heater boxes, etc. it certainly seems possible and Jimmy Mac has a lot of those items in his collection. Certainly seems possible that one could tool up and reproduce these items, but they won't fit a large number of cars out there.

I've pondered the question that you've asked many times. It seems quite difficult.

R

Mike Drew · 06-30-07, 04:59 PM

Ron,

I hear what you're saying. But you make my point for me. Within the Cobra replica industry, for example, there is a fair bit of standardization. For some strange reason, there are a LOT of truly ghastly replicas from the UK, which have taken all sorts of liberties with the original design. Many of them are downright revolting. But for the most part, even the lower-spec USA replicas (those with live axle rear suspensions, etc.) remain faithful to the original when it comes to things like bumpers, lights, mirrors, instruments, door handles, and even wheels (if the owner feels like spending the money for proper knock-offs). The replica manufacturers all have different ideas with respect to chassis design and associated 'big' hard parts, but normally design their kits to accomodate the standard bolt-on detaily hard bits.

But it seems that, by and large, GT40 replica manufacturers don't bother with such details. And thus you get cars that have VW Rabbit door handles and a steering column from a Vauxhall, and so on and so forth.

Even Superformance, which has done an admirable job of engineering a very faithful replica (as opposed to a mere homage car), fell down when it came to the door latching system. It would have been so simple to replicate the original interior door release, yet they opted for a simple wire (which, on the one example I sat in, came pre-broken).

It just seems to me that a businessman could perhaps make a lot of money (okay, some money) by putting together a catalog that offers up the various bits that enthusiasts currently have to rummage and scramble around to find--things that ARE available, if somebody knows where to look.

The thing that got me thinking about it was the thread on interior mirrors for the GT40. As far as I know, the original cars came with but a single mirror, the Lucas L608, as fitted to numerous Jags, Aston Martins and Austin Healeys of the period. Apparently these mirrors are now very difficult to come by, so people just stick whatever they can find in its place. I can't understand why, if Lucas no longer makes them, some enterprising invidual hasn't had them re-popped in China. Then I realized that the only way to see any profit from such a venture would be to have a retail establishment set up to market them.

It's a chicken-and-egg scenario--nobody makes the parts because nobody sells the parts, and nobody sells the parts because there aren't any parts to be sold.

I guess I'm just spoiled by the Pantera and the Cobra, with their attendant awesome parts support infrastructure. And perhaps as more and more GT40s are made, eventually somebody will see an opportunity, and we'll all benefit from it.

I wish I had a lot of money and a lot of time to devote to such a project....

Jim c · 06-30-07, 06:56 PM

Mike

I agree with Ron
I have had similar ideas but the market is not that big.
I sell components of my site mainly products that I have developed for my car sometimes it is ok other times you sell nothing (more a hobby).

I looked at getting some products manufactured overseas but the volumes are to usually 500 to a 1000 units minimum and you would be sitting on a container of door mirrors.
That uncertainty of shifting the product.
Yes I agree if know sells now on buys it is a chicken before the egg thing.

Laws change so the cars change we have to run electric mirrors down here because you have to be able to adjust the mirror from the driver’s seat, the windows stop you doing this so there go’s one market.

I have worked on a few different brands and all different for the larger components.
Small components yes.

Some stuff you could
Know I understand your PM

Jim

JimmyMac · 07-02-07, 02:46 PM

"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."

-- Confucius

Ron Earp · 07-02-07, 03:01 PM

I think Jim pretty much called it - volume.

I have thought of doing a GT40 store with some of these bits. What better place to host it than a GT40s.com forum site? But the volume is extremely low for GT40 replicas compared to Cobras. We could make door handles, original latches, proper Dzus fasteners, correct switches, mirrors, vents, but how many would be sold a year?

I imagine that there are less than 200-300 GT40 replicas under construction right now with maybe 800 or so in the world running? Not all of them would purchase a mirror or vent, or whatever it is offered. I think too few of them would actually buy, leaving maybe sales volume of maybe 50-100 widgets per year.

Seems tough to me. And, most of the replicas have pretty good bits already. I've not seen any with VW handles etc. or anything that awful. While some bits may not be 100% accurate, many are pretty close in accuracy and function.

Ron

Fred/Belgium · 07-02-07, 03:14 PM

The other thing to understand ,I believe, in selling for quantity is that there were quite a lot different original GT40's types to start with and the total volume of original types (especially racecars) was rather limited.

I don't really believe that ' for example' there are a lot of same GTDs in the market for reasons mentionned above.

Thats probably also the beauty to have a 'reconstructed' GT40, taylor made and still close to the real ones.

And finally this site seems to be able to concentrate all above in 'parts for sale' from 'mouth to mouth'...a real asset globally.

At least my point of view but you have a valid point.

Fred

JimmyMac · 07-02-07, 03:36 PM

I fully agree with Ron.
Most of the cars depicted on this forum seem in good order and much credit is due to the guys who have spent considerable study and searching time for those parts to maintain the GT40 aesthetic.
Some suppliers have also done the research and do offer very comprehensive fit-out packages for their own product -RCR and Tornado to name a couple. (Nobody seems to mention ERA on here but their car is about as close as you can get in my opinion)
There are also a few on this forum who re-manufacture parts after the originals in a most excellent fashion. But it is a specialist supply and can hardly be described as a market by which a man can depend upon to feed a family.

Here are a few recent prices for original pieces :
Rear Mirror $550 ea.
Rear Clip Plug $400 ea.
Dash demister $250 ea.
Head Lights $600 pr.
Weber manifold $3200 ea.
Weber Carbs $875 ea.
Pumps $ 800 ea.
Dash vents $350 pr.

I estimate that there are very few on this forum would spend this kind of cash to fit parts on a close to original replica let alone upgrade a kit.

Pete · 07-02-07, 10:04 PM

I'd settle for a nice GT40 jacket or sweatshirt.....

Pete

Ron Earp · 07-03-07, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECONOMAN

I'd settle for a nice GT40 jacket or sweatshirt.....
Pete

Now those are some things we want to do in the store!

As JimmyMac says most of the GT40 replica companies go to great lengths to make sure the parts they supply are pretty darn close to looking and feeling like the real deal. The RF kit I had as example was very complete, one of the most complete kits I've seen, and had good latches, Le Mans trim panels, eyeball vents (not exact but close) Smith's gauges (electrical but looked more accurate than a lot of modern gauges) and so on.

I think folks would pay the prices JimmyMac listed if buying initially, but I feel he's right on in that they wouldn't upgrade what they already have in their kit. The RF demister grill I had wasn't an exact replica, but it was darn close and looked the part. I wouldn't have parted with $250 to replace it nor $350 for the eyeball vents.

Small market we live in here in GT40 world. Hats off to all of the companies that build replicas, offer replica parts, and keep that business going.

Ron

Howard Jones · 07-03-07, 05:15 PM

Lastly there are Lawyers. Some of the really needed stuff like brake caliper adapters, rotor hats, uprights, wishbones, and other suspension parts are what I have come to call "itwillkillya" parts. I would be very hesitant to sell these sort of parts without a extensive look at liability issues and an expensive insurance policy in place. I really don't even like to give them away as excess. You just can't know whose hands it will end up it, let alone what they might do to it.

Other things like windshields or bodywork for example are very expensive and come in many different fittings and would be way too much money to let set in stock awaiting a buyer.

JimmyMac · 07-03-07, 07:59 PM

I write this as an enthusiast picking up parts to build my own car and I have never sold any parts.
The GT40 enthusiast will know well that most of the fit-out parts on the original Ford GTs came from the Ford parts bin and British/French car manufacturer's supply chain catalogues.
So this stuff still exists on dustly shelves after forty years and does not need re-manufacturing. You just have to get out there and look for it and I think some of us have already proved that.

Regarding those prices, they are partly a result of limited supply and popular demand because unfortunately both the British GT40 MKI and Mini Cooper are now more popular - because of the rarity.
The other factor affecting high prices, is that people seem to have more spare cash for luxuries now, so there is a new type of buyer, "the one-stop shopper" out there who demands the good replica instantly, regardless, and who also doesn't want to do the homework.
As a result there will be a few parts guys who can capitalise on this and those buyers therefor who want it now, deservedly have to pay the dues.

Gladly, this is not everybody's style however, and this forum is still predominantly all about personal builds so good luck to the genuine parts hunters out there who wish to get that wee bit closer to the real thing and also those who appreciate this without considering material profitability.

Incidentally Ron, I think the Polo shirts are an excellent idea.

Doc Watson · 07-04-07, 10:42 AM

Most of the fun I have is sourcing the parts for my build. Hours on e-bay and the internet looking at classic car sources can every now and then produce the goods. Often unrelated searches send you on the track of other parts.

Case in point... today I was looking for a db5 interior mirror and ended up finding and buying this....NOS cav ammeter, might need a new bezel for SVA and will paint the inside black rather than cream but for £10 I'm not complaining ;-)

...maybe I need to get out more.... lol

Andy

JimmyMac · 07-04-07, 10:45 AM

Andrew,
Correction, you need to stay in more and study
The CAV ammeter had RED internals

Doc Watson · 07-04-07, 10:53 AM

Thanks James..... will paint it red then... and confine myself to sit here all night searching for more parts and info...

Addendum...Never thought you would be wrong James but found the proof...can just see the red on the side.

BTW there is another on ebay....

eBay.co.uk: CAV AMMETER CLASSIC VINTAGE CAR PART (item 260135004098 end time 07-Jul-07 19:31:13 BST)

currently at £9.99, and cant see if its red internals but does have chrome bezel...

Thanks again James your a true Jedi Master

Dalton · 07-12-07, 08:51 AM

Some GT40 enthusiasts seem to be quite strange, don't want simple "one stop" shopping, enjoy the thrill of the hunt, and mutter "demister grille" or "eye ball vents" to themselves as they spend lonely hours trawling the internet.

Of course others are probably almost normal.

Dalton

JimmyMac · 07-12-07, 11:26 AM

Dalton,

I am a loner, but idle trawling for bits is personally not for me as I have no time. Out working for fifteen hours each day and spending the rest of my waking time with my wife prevents this.

Part of the so-called 'hunt' is seeking the facts about this car and therein is my own satisfaction. "One stop shopping" would be most beneficial for me because of my itinery, but I also never liked shelling out a hard earned cash to supplement my own shortfall in knowledge, whatever the subject.

It's a fair wager to state that up until the conception of this forum six years ago, most people had no idea of the consistent parts of these cars and unfortunately there are also some newer aficionados who have a lazy interest and believe that with cash everything is accessible instantly.
Fortunately some of them don't, and they mostly stick together offline and generously swop parts and information. This friendship makes it easier for everybody concerned and I am personally grateful for this.
So it's not really the solitary pass-time as you may think.

How many people would have considered building a relatively original looking GT40 fifteen years ago, on their own, when there was no web or relatively accessible information concerning parts for these cars ?

It is still however very difficult.

Dalton · 07-12-07, 11:37 PM

I don't disagree with you, James. In terms of available parts, DRB here in Oz has a parts list and appears to have available parts to suit completion of their version of the GT40. So it can be One Stop shopping for a build of a DRB at least. I don't know how close to original their parts are, as I do not yet have a 40 of my own, but they appear reasonably good from photos of their cars.

Overall, the Internet and Forums such as this have revolutionised the building of replicas or home projects, as you point out, by facilitating communication that was previously just not achievable. It's still a small market group, however.

Cheers,

Dalton