Fire!

My mate John and I started my GT40 for the first time since its latest engine problem. Its now running a duplex chain cam drive rather than the screaming in my ear gear drive of old.

Anyhow all went well and it sounds fantastic but neither of us spotted a plug lead leaning on the exhaust manifold.

I glanced back and saw black smoke and then flames. Both of us fought to use the fire extinguisher (ok how many times do YOU get to pull that pin?) and we ended up with a big ol' white V8 covered in white powder.

Whats the best way to get rid of it? Not the V8 the powder?
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Whats the best way to get rid of it? Not the V8 the powder?

This is from memory from a long time ago in Lotus land (not LA, but the Hethel kind).

  1. The powder is not corrosive until it gets wet (I think ) so vacuum off what you can and keep water away.
  2. Under no circumstances let the engine breath any of it.
  3. But first.... find out if your extinguisher uses the corrosive kind.
From wikipedia, here are the kinds.

Ammonium phosphate, also known as "tri-class", "multipurpose" or "ABC" dry chemical, used on class A, B, and C fires. It receives its class A rating from the agent's ability to melt and flow at 177 °C (350 °F) to smother the fire. More corrosive than other dry chemical agents. Pale yellow in color.
Sodium bicarbonate, "regular" or "ordinary" used on class B and C fires, was the first of the dry chemical agents developed. It interrupts the fire's chemical reaction, and was very common in commercial kitchens before the advent of wet chemical agents, but now is falling out of favor, as it is much less effective than wet chemical agents for class K fires, less effective than Purple-K for class B fires, and is ineffective on class A fires. White or blue in color.
Potassium bicarbonate (aka Purple-K), used on class B and C fires. About two times as effective on class B fires as sodium bicarbonate, it is the preferred dry chemical agent of the oil and gas industry. The only dry chemical agent certified for use in ARFF by the NFPA. Violet in color.
Potassium bicarbonate & Urea Complex (aka Monnex), used on Class B and C fires. More effective than all other powders due to its ability to decrepitate (where the powder breaks up into smaller particles) in the flame zone creating a larger surface area for free radical inhibition.
Potassium Chloride, or Super-K dry chemical was developed in an effort to create a high efficiency, protein-foam compatible dry chemical. Developed in the 60s, prior to Purple-K, it was never as popular as other agents since being a salt, it was quite corrosive. For B and C fires, white in color.
Foam-Compatible, which is a sodium bicarbonate (BC) based dry chemical, was developed for use with protein foams for fighting class B fires. Most dry chemicals contain metal stearates to waterproof them, but these will tend to destroy the foam blanket created by protein (animal) based foams. Foam compatible type uses silicone as a waterproofing agent, which does not harm foam. Effectiveness is identical to regular dry chemical, and it is light green in color (some ANSUL brand formulations are blue). This agent is generally no longer used since most modern dry chemicals are considered compatible with synthetic foams such as AFFF.
MET-L-KYL is a specialty variation of sodium bicarbonate for fighting pyrophoric liquid fires (ignite on contact with air). In addition to sodium bicarbonate, it also contains silica gel particles. The sodium bicarbonate interrupts the chain reaction of the fuel and the silica soaks up any unburned fuel, preventing contact with air. It is effective on other class B fuels as well. Blue/Red in color.
 

Keith

Moderator
My mate John and I started my GT40 for the first time since its latest engine problem. Its now running a duplex chain cam drive rather than the screaming in my ear gear drive of old.

Anyhow all went well and it sounds fantastic but neither of us spotted a plug lead leaning on the exhaust manifold.

I glanced back and saw black smoke and then flames. Both of us fought to use the fire extinguisher (ok how many times do YOU get to pull that pin?) and we ended up with a big ol' white V8 covered in white powder.

Whats the best way to get rid of it? Not the V8 the powder?

To be quite honest - powder sucks big time. I just hope your motor didn't ingest any because it can cause more damage that it saves.

Halon was always the best but I believe it's banned now. Failing that CO2. Not sure about what's available, but for sure I hate powders.

In 1973 was negotiating Hyde Park Corner with a few dry powder extinguishers in the back when one let off. My world was full of white fog and not only was I choking, but following cars thought I was on fire, so I had to suffer the indignity of having water and stuff chucked over me to add insult to the injury. Getting rid? I suppose hose it down is all the advice I can offer apart from don't do it again. :)

PS I would add, that it may save your life one day.. Hey ho - life is complicated.
 

Dave Lindemann

Lifetime Supporter
Ken -

Very sorry to hear about your fire. From the sound of it you used a dry chemical extinguisher. Here are some clean-up tips:

Use a vacuum to clean up as much of the residue as you can. A strong shop vac should work fine.

Use a clean, damp rag to scrub up whatever residue is left.

Use a vinegar and water solution to clean stubborn residue remaining from sodium bicarbonate- or potassium bicarbonate-based extinguishers. You may have to use a large amount of water to flush the bicarbonate residue out of porous surfaces or soft materials then blotting up the water and residue with clean rags.

I suggest buying a clean-agent fire extinguisher for use around your car.

Regards,
Dave L
 

Seymour Snerd

Lifetime Supporter
Here's a slighty longer variant from "ehow" which normally is pretty lame but this procedure actually sounds intelligent (at least to me)

<LI id=jsArticleStep1 itxtvisited="1">Step 1 Use a good <NOBR style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_3_0>vacuum</NOBR> to clean up as much of the residue as you can. Use a strong shop vac for difficult areas, such as thick, shaggy carpet, or areas with a lot of crevices. If you do not have a good vacuum, you can use a broom or rag to sweep up the loose residue.
<LI id=jsArticleStep2 itxtvisited="1">Step 2
Use a clean, damp rag to scrub up whatever residue is left. For residue left from extinguishers using mono ammonium phosphate, clean the affected area as soon as possible, making sure to protect your hands with gloves.
<LI id=jsArticleStep3 itxtvisited="1">Step 3
Use a vinegar and water solution to clean stubborn residue remaining from sodium bicarbonate- or potassium bicarbonate-based extinguishers. You may have to use a large amount of water to flush the bicarbonate residue out of porous surfaces or soft materials such as carpets and draperies, blotting up the water and residue with clean rags.
<LI id=jsArticleStep4 itxtvisited="1">Step 4
Wash away residue left from foam-based extinguishers. The foam should evaporate after a short time.
<LI id=jsArticleStep5 itxtvisited="1">Step 5
Use a household deodorizer such as Febreze or carpet cleaner with baking soda to remove any lingering odors from the extinguishing agent.


Tips & Warnings

  • Sensitive and delicate items, such as artwork, electronic equipment and cooking appliances, may require professional cleaning if exposed to extinguishing agents.

  • Dry powder agents are generally safe, but they can cause respiratory, eye and skin irritation. Take the appropriate precautions, such as using face masks, goggles and gloves, if cleanup can lead to kicking up the dry powder, making it airborne. Mono ammonium phosphate is a corrosive chemical and should be handled with care. Use gloves while cleaning up residue left by extinguishers using this extinguishing agent. While certain extinguishing agents should be cleaned as soon as possible to prevent their corrosive properties from doing damage, make sure the area you want to clean is cool enough to work with.
 

RichardH

AKA The Mad Hat Man
Just a thought - couldnt yu use an air gun to blow it away from difficult areas?

Oh - and block any air intakes when doing any of the above ;).
 

David Morton

Lifetime Supporter
Richard.
I trust you are talking about blowing the powder away and not about fighting the fire.
My advice is do dot spread it around anywhere by blowing.Get the strongest Vacuum you can find and under no circumstance allow the powder to get wet. Use crevice tools from the Vacuum and a paint brush just in front of the Vacuum intake nozzle. Once you've done it, take a coffee break, and then do it all again. Dismatle anything that is easily re assembled and check there was not ingress.
Have fun.....
 

Howard Jones

Supporter
I have worked on electronic equipment that was "put out" with a dry chemical system. Usually vacuuming is the only way that you can get if off. Then and ONLY after you just can't get anymore off with a vacuum and soft small paint brush, you can blow the last few % off with high pressure air. Please do this in a place where it does not get all over something else that is valuable. We use to blow it into a paint booth filter suction system and then dispose of the filters afterwards. If it was PKP (purple K) then it's usually a throw away. We never got electronic circuit boards to work again once the PKP begins to eat up the traces. It doesn't take long either. A couple of hours.

Under NO circumstances get it wet. None, not at all, period. It will immediately begin to eat up all the soft metal. Aluminum, solder on circuit boards, lead etc. If it got into the motor I'm sorry to tell ya that you need to take it apart and put it back together clean as you would in a rebuild. This stuff is very abrasive. Be sure to take the carb apart also.

Now if anybody else has a power type fire extinguisher in their car, I think it is pretty clear you want to get rid of it and replace it with a gaseous type. Halon is still available here in the US as well as a couple of replacement gas types. The small 2 pound handhelds are a $150 ish. You can install a on board 5 pound system in you car for less than 400 dollars. A 5 pound system will put out any fire that can be put out by anything less than a fire truck and the fire department. One nossle in the cockpit and one in the engine room. Ya, I know about the lack of oxygen issue in the driver's compartment. But it's that or burn.

Sounds pretty cheap after reading this thread...eh.
 
scary stories...I also got adviced not to buy the powder fire extinguisher what car shops mostly have on offer (I needed one 2L for trackdays)
so I bought a (did this with a translater so don't know) foam extinguishing sera? but not specialy for in cars and that saved a lot cash :D not that expensive.
 

RichardH

AKA The Mad Hat Man
Dave - yes i was talking about getting rid of the powder - it was only an off-the-cuff thought. I have no experience of on-board fire systems.
 
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