Crash Safety

[Paul]

I know that this isn't a subject too popular with most drivers. But if you are on a public road you have to think about the impact resistance of a car. I know that there is a lot of data on speed and horsepower etc. But I was wondering if the various kit makers could give us an idea of how impact resistant their cars are in terms of protecting the driver.

In particular would the various manufacturers like to comment on:
1. Head on crash resistance in terms of driver safety.
2. Side on impact on the drivers door.

If the manufacturers could tell us just how safe their cars are compared to an ordinary street car that would be a help -and also what they are doing in the way of developing on going enhancements to ensure driver safety.

Its just the one thing most people will agree on, there are a lot of idiots on the roads out there and you can't always avoid them.

 

[Simon]

I can't see the relevance of this question
A very low GT40 hitting a 4x4 IS going to come off worse no matter what safety measures the mfr installs.
The car is a replica of a race car from the 1960's. There is very little room for much in the way of safety devices as the car is so small.
Modern cars are streets ahead of all kits in terms of safety nowadays, it's just a fact of life and something we are happy to live with because we love the cars. If we were that worried, we'd all be driving modern Hondas/Fords etc
The biggest problem (and I have experience of this sadly) is "submarining"
through 4 point belts due to the angle of the seat.
I would thoroughly recommend 5 or 6 point belts.
I'm not anti-safety, far from it, it's just that these cars are more risky to drive and I think we all know that.

Simon

 

[Dalton Veitch]

Paul, there are many compulsory safety areas for road registration in Australia (the ADR's require side intrusion beams in the doors, for instance, plus approved seat belts, approved lighting and indicators, wiper coverage, seat strength, ground clearance, torsional rigidity, and so on).

However, these replicas are still "kit cars" (hate that term in this context) that are allowed to be individually constructed without various systems that the mass production boys need to include (air bags, crumple zones, ABS brakes, and so on). We are thankful for this, otherwise they would not be financially viable at all. And you cannot expect the kit manufacturers to build a few and crash them for information. Plus it wouldn't be relevant as the individual builders would be doing the build differently anyway. So answers to your questions have to be anecdotal. This can be a grey area anyway; search the recent thread on a roll bar causing severe injury, the opposite of its purpose.

 

[Mark]

I also think that we need to remember that even modern, mass-produced vehicles have little to protect you in the event of a real-world accident at real-world speeds.

My personal opinion is that you play the lottery whenever you exceed circa 30mph.

People often survive crashes that you would have bet money on them being dead and visa-versa, people die when the car looks relatively unscathed.

 

[Tony Hunt]

Paul,
I agree with Simon.
Crash safety in a modern sense just isn't relevant to the GT40 and if you're that worried don't drive one on public roads.
To see what I mean, walk up to any substantial truck, van or 4x4 and squat down so your head is about 38" above the ground. What do you see? Rear axles, undertrays, trailer chassis (usually above eye level) or chassis side members, all of which would be pretty terminal if hit hard.
Ask anyone who drives a GT40 on the road about their driving style. We all drive much more defensively, because our visibilty aft of the beam is pretty poor too. We drive further back from the vehicle in front - this allows us to see round it better - we don't assume an oncoming vehicle has seen us and don't allow following vehicles to get too close. I'm particularly careful when changing motorway lanes as there's often some loony coming up fast in the outside lane to have a look and take a camera picture - see also comment on rearward visibility.
I'm very aware that my car's surviveability is marginal in a head-on, T-bone or roll over accident, particularly if the tanks are full of fuel. I very often drive with my wife in the passenger seat and am always thinking at least 100 yards ahead of where I am. My only advantage is superior acceleration and braking.
But that most of our sandwich-eating, mobile phone texting, iPod-fiddling fellow road users would pay a fraction of that attention to what's going on around them.

 

[David Lowe]

Paul
The same question could be asked of back yard Hot-Rods and Show-Cars that were previously produced. I have seen massive hp engines placed in substandard frames with limited braking capacity and still pass registration checks. I know that when I take the GT40 out all my driving senses are on full alert to cope with some of the idiots on the road. (Not unlike a motorcyclist).
A couple of my main concerns driving has been the driver of the other vehicle in front slowing down leaning out his window and then trying to take pictures/video of the car as I overtake him. (This has happened many times). Also many large 4x4's insist on travelling so close to your arse that all you see is the front diff sump plug in you rear mirror.
I don't mean to divert the thread but I love driving the GT40 and understand it's limitations and associated risks when I get in to drive it. But ask me if I would I would rather written on my epitaph: Died while driving his GT40 or his Hyundai Getz I know which one I would choose.

 

[Randy V]

I started to try and make a difference to my own car;

http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-tec...-pardon-intrusion-gt40-safety.html#post265289

Still - a Soccer-Mom on a Cell phone in a 4WD Suburban would drive right over this. Although my roll cage may help some as well..

 

[Cliff Beer]

These cars are totally unsafe for the road compared to modern standards. No bumpers, no crash protection at all. big fuel tanks along the sides about 5 inches off the ground, your legs ARE the crumple zones, etc.

I drive very cautiously on public roads if there's any other car within 50 yards. I have four kids to support.

 

[Doug Clark]

I realize that all self built or kit cars are going to be behind production cars in terms of 'active safety' gizmos i.e. airbags, abs, etc however hopefully on the 'passive safety' front i.e. steering and braking to get out of trouble in the first place they may have an advantage.

What I've found a bit frustrating from the wonderful web world of car building web sites is very little information on things:
a) that have failed on their cars that could cause 'situations'.
b) lessons learnt from accidents on the street at the track or other wise.

The point being if we don't get the information then the lessons cant be learnt and things can't be improved.

 

[David Sturch]

Doug,
I look at it as to driving a motorcycle. You will also find that high end European Sports Cars use a loophole that falls under the prototype category under the MVSS. This allows them to produce up to 999 vehicles for that model year. How many Bugatti Vyrons or Ferrari's have you seen crash tested a the Labs in Washington. When at GM we used to build between 70-90 vehicles on ramp up for testing. At least 12 to 18 were wrecked in crash testing. 10 for cold weather testing in Kapuskasing and 10 for Arizona proving grounds and hotweather testing. If built here a few to the Engineering Center and the Tech Center in Michigan.
Dave

 

[Paolo-LoveGT40 Modelworks]

Paul,
I also totally agree to Simon. I still remember the pics of his blue gtd hitting an audi at a very low speed.The damage was impressive.
Gt40s replica are probably worst than original monocoque ones.The safety was not a purpouse of the project (correct me if I am wrong, think neither mk4 had a rollcage inside at the time).
It is also probably worst than a motorcycle, where at least u can fly away and (pray to) survive,wearing an helmet and a good leather bikesuit.

Then we can start a serious discussion of what we mean as "safety" on the road..

 

[TimB]

Let me just place this picture of an origional crash test here. Also note the fuel spray

 

[Randy V]

Let me just place this picture of an origional crash test here. Also note the fuel spray

Why does my butt pucker every time I see that picture... :shocked:

 

[Martin]

I must never show this picture to my wife. My car would be immediately for sale.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Doug,
I look at it as to driving a motorcycle. You will also find that high end European Sports Cars use a loophole that falls under the prototype category under the MVSS. This allows them to produce up to 999 vehicles for that model year. How many Bugatti Vyrons or Ferrari's have you seen crash tested a the Labs in Washington. When at GM we used to build between 70-90 vehicles on ramp up for testing. At least 12 to 18 were wrecked in crash testing. 10 for cold weather testing in Kapuskasing and 10 for Arizona proving grounds and hotweather testing. If built here a few to the Engineering Center and the Tech Center in Michigan.
Dave

I agree with David.

Drive it like a motorcycle as if no one sees you. A lot of them don't!!

 

[Alex]

I can't speak for GT40s, but they're similar height to an SLC (about 2'' lower I believe), and if a civic looks like a 4x4 to me, it isn't going to be any better for you guys!

Not to mention side-mounted fuel tanks. EY-YA!

 

[Jack]

I agree with David.

Drive it like a motorcycle as if no one sees you. A lot of them don't!!

Exactly, as if NO one see's you! The other side of that coin, are those that get closer to have a look at freeway speeds!

 

[David Sturch]

Jack,

After seeing that picture of the fuel spraying as it hits the wall, I think I will get some Nomex Undies.
Dave

 

[Jack]

Wonder if a Nomex crotch cup is available too!

 

[Doug Clark]

Hi David,

I ride a motorcycle to work most days and have done so for most of the last 25 years.
It is an an activity that has inherently more risk than most other forms of travel, point is not to avoid doing something you love but to mitigate as much of the risk as is reasonable without destroying the enjoyment in the activity in the first place.
Motorcycling has to be a safer activity than 40 odd years with the improvements in safety gear and in the machines themselves (HD's excepted).

Looking at kit cars again poly bushes in suspension seem to cause issues there's quite a few occasions of this happening, why?

On lab crash testing obviously this is not going to happen but there's real world testing happening not learning the lessons from these events only serves to compound the loss IMHO.