Tools?
- Thread starter Wreckage
- Start date
George
Our build manual contains a list of every tool required to build and maintain the TSC GT40.
Thanks
Andy
Our build manual contains a list of every tool required to build and maintain the TSC GT40.
Thanks
Andy
Dimi Terleckyj
Lifetime Supporter
Hi George
With all respect, if you are building a 40, then you would presumably already have the tools required.
The knowledge of what is required and when especially with a vehicle such as a 40 depends on the various parts used and the manner in which the car is used.
Due to space limitations and the complexity of the beast handing these cars over to someone else for servicing is fraught with danger and owning one is not as straight forward as an ordinary daily driver.
You need to be very familiar with all the "normal" sounds of the car which are unique to each individual 40 and be constantly aware of anything that may sound different to catch a problem that could become very expensive if left unattended.
You don't mention if you are building one or if you have just purchased one.
A lot of the servicing procedure comes down to checking everything over for anything that may have become loose or leaking after every few outings as well as monitoring fluid levels very closely.
Personally with mine I give the 40 a complete check over after every long trip of a few hours in duration.
Dimi
With all respect, if you are building a 40, then you would presumably already have the tools required.
The knowledge of what is required and when especially with a vehicle such as a 40 depends on the various parts used and the manner in which the car is used.
Due to space limitations and the complexity of the beast handing these cars over to someone else for servicing is fraught with danger and owning one is not as straight forward as an ordinary daily driver.
You need to be very familiar with all the "normal" sounds of the car which are unique to each individual 40 and be constantly aware of anything that may sound different to catch a problem that could become very expensive if left unattended.
You don't mention if you are building one or if you have just purchased one.
A lot of the servicing procedure comes down to checking everything over for anything that may have become loose or leaking after every few outings as well as monitoring fluid levels very closely.
Personally with mine I give the 40 a complete check over after every long trip of a few hours in duration.
Dimi
George
CURRENTLY BANNED
I dont have the car, Im trying to gather all the information in my head to know what Im dealing with/looking at getting/working towards getting, and I wanted to get some tools with the GT40 in mind that ofcourse I can use on other stuff to. I heard that anything 'today' is pretty much metric not AF, just wanted to be sure.
But what you said makes total sense Dimi.
Btw- may I ask where in AU you are?
But what you said makes total sense Dimi.
Btw- may I ask where in AU you are?
flatchat(Chris)
Supporter
Btw- may I ask where in AU you are?[/QUOTE]
WHAT !
btw - have you told us where you are "located" yet ??
WHAT !
btw - have you told us where you are "located" yet ??
Ron Earp
Admin
George,
What is your level of competence in working on automobiles? I'll just ask the question others are probably wanting to ask - if you don't currently have any tools then presumably you haven't been working on cars as a hobby. If that is the case then a GT40 isn't the best car to jump into the hobby as a "first car". Forgive me if I'm incorrect in my line of questioning but given the couple of threads you've started on the forum regarding GT40s we just don't want to see someone get in way over their head.
Ron
What is your level of competence in working on automobiles? I'll just ask the question others are probably wanting to ask - if you don't currently have any tools then presumably you haven't been working on cars as a hobby. If that is the case then a GT40 isn't the best car to jump into the hobby as a "first car". Forgive me if I'm incorrect in my line of questioning but given the couple of threads you've started on the forum regarding GT40s we just don't want to see someone get in way over their head.
Ron
George
CURRENTLY BANNED
Hello Ron
No experience at all.
I know how to take the plug out of the oil sump and screw a new filter on...
Thats about as far as Ive got.
:lipsrsealed:
Ive had my 68 Charger at shops, every shop tells u 1 thing n then screws u over. I just dont trust anyone anymore so I wanna do things myself, that way it A: doesnt cost labour B: I know whats done C: I know the parts I paid for are the ones going in. So im more than willing to learn, to ask here what bolt do I turn where to do whatever needs doing etc (online learning) so to speak. As much as I dont really 'like' doing this sort of stuff, its the only safe course seems like to me, especially with a car like this.
No experience at all.
I know how to take the plug out of the oil sump and screw a new filter on...
Thats about as far as Ive got.
:lipsrsealed:
Ive had my 68 Charger at shops, every shop tells u 1 thing n then screws u over. I just dont trust anyone anymore so I wanna do things myself, that way it A: doesnt cost labour B: I know whats done C: I know the parts I paid for are the ones going in. So im more than willing to learn, to ask here what bolt do I turn where to do whatever needs doing etc (online learning) so to speak. As much as I dont really 'like' doing this sort of stuff, its the only safe course seems like to me, especially with a car like this.
G-man, the people who are asking hard questions are just trying to keep you from making a very expensive and potentially dangerous mistake. Take some time to look through the build threads on this forum, then ask yourself if you have the skills, knowledge, and tools to match the things you see there.
Hand tools are absolutely NOT the only thing that you'll need to build one of these "kits"....while they are (almost) all incredibly well engineered, each is different and, to be honest, none is probably going to be easy, perhaps not even possible, for someone with the limited experience you mentioned to complete.
Take for example the "kit" airplane industry...yes, there are such things. Here in the U.S. we have a government agency that is responsible for inspecting at various times in the build how the project seems to be coming along. At the end, it is inspected and in my limited experience, the FAA inspector has ALWAYS insisted that the builder allow him to leave before the airplane is taken airborn for the first time. Yes, the airplane MAY be well built, but whether or not the builder can actually manage the operation of the airplane is yet another matter.
These cars can be every bit as dangerous to the uninformed or the unskilled, but there is no government agency looking over your shoulder during the build to make sure you don't make a lethal mistake. As you live in AU, you'll have to undergo a rigorous "rego" inspection when your project is complete before you can put it on the road...those processes have left many a competent manufacturer scratching his head, wondering how to satisfy the requirements, much less an individual with such limited experience as you report.
I've 62 and have been involved in building and modifying various automotive project since I was 15...and I have not yet embarked on one of these builds because I am not sure I have the fabrication skills to complete one. Although Tornado seems (to me, at least) to offer the most complete kit, each private builder will want to put his own personal touches into the project....have you ever built brackets to hang fuel pumps, snaked fuel/water/brake fluid lines through VERY limited spaces, that sort of thing?
If not, IMHO you might well be wise to leave the task of building one of these to those who are familiar with their own product. The manufacturers can all provide a "roller", which is a chassis that has been assembled, and you can spec which work you want them to perform, leaving that undone which you are sure you can do for yourself.
You really don't want to get out on the highways in one of these and find that you failed to tighten a critical suspension component, etc. They can kill you in a heartbeat!
I have the same dream as you, but I cannot (or, perhaps more appropriately, don't want to) embark on my own build, even with a complete kit, until I'm sure I can complete it myself. You'd be surprised how many "kits" get started by capable private individuals and get sold unfinished b/c the assembly process was too dificult, not to mention took too long of a time. We really are talking about expensive "toys" here, after all.
If I may ask....how old are you?
Good luck.....and please, take some time to analyze your skills and limitations. It may be the most valuable "component" of the process you can do for yourself.
Cheers from Doug!!
Hand tools are absolutely NOT the only thing that you'll need to build one of these "kits"....while they are (almost) all incredibly well engineered, each is different and, to be honest, none is probably going to be easy, perhaps not even possible, for someone with the limited experience you mentioned to complete.
Take for example the "kit" airplane industry...yes, there are such things. Here in the U.S. we have a government agency that is responsible for inspecting at various times in the build how the project seems to be coming along. At the end, it is inspected and in my limited experience, the FAA inspector has ALWAYS insisted that the builder allow him to leave before the airplane is taken airborn for the first time. Yes, the airplane MAY be well built, but whether or not the builder can actually manage the operation of the airplane is yet another matter.
These cars can be every bit as dangerous to the uninformed or the unskilled, but there is no government agency looking over your shoulder during the build to make sure you don't make a lethal mistake. As you live in AU, you'll have to undergo a rigorous "rego" inspection when your project is complete before you can put it on the road...those processes have left many a competent manufacturer scratching his head, wondering how to satisfy the requirements, much less an individual with such limited experience as you report.
I've 62 and have been involved in building and modifying various automotive project since I was 15...and I have not yet embarked on one of these builds because I am not sure I have the fabrication skills to complete one. Although Tornado seems (to me, at least) to offer the most complete kit, each private builder will want to put his own personal touches into the project....have you ever built brackets to hang fuel pumps, snaked fuel/water/brake fluid lines through VERY limited spaces, that sort of thing?
If not, IMHO you might well be wise to leave the task of building one of these to those who are familiar with their own product. The manufacturers can all provide a "roller", which is a chassis that has been assembled, and you can spec which work you want them to perform, leaving that undone which you are sure you can do for yourself.
You really don't want to get out on the highways in one of these and find that you failed to tighten a critical suspension component, etc. They can kill you in a heartbeat!
I have the same dream as you, but I cannot (or, perhaps more appropriately, don't want to) embark on my own build, even with a complete kit, until I'm sure I can complete it myself. You'd be surprised how many "kits" get started by capable private individuals and get sold unfinished b/c the assembly process was too dificult, not to mention took too long of a time. We really are talking about expensive "toys" here, after all.
If I may ask....how old are you?
Good luck.....and please, take some time to analyze your skills and limitations. It may be the most valuable "component" of the process you can do for yourself.
Cheers from Doug!!
I recall he indicated in another thread he is 28. The "u", non-capitalization, and other textspeak in the original thread is a clue......
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Oh, that's textspeak. I was wondering. :laugh: My English teachers would have other, less printable, words for it.
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Ron Earp
Admin
I think you've answered your on question, in a way. If you don't really like doing this stuff then the hobby probably isn't for you. GT40s are very non-standardized automobiles. Each one is different, even to a certain extent from the same manufacturer. They all require more specialized upkeep than a 68 Charger, which you admittedly take to shops. A 68 Charger is orders of magnitude easier to work on than any GT40 replica.
The "complexity" of GT40s and related cars is sort of like a barrier to entrance into the hobby, a filter of sorts. Anybody can write a check and own a twin turbo Porsche. And surely you can write a check and own a GT40 replica - but few guys actually do that, most have a love for the cars and maintaining specialized cars. I know I fall into that category, that is, I could buy a twin turbo Porsche and have fun with it but prefer the odd assortment of non-standard go-fast cars I own because not everyone can own them.
You need to decide on which side of the fence you'd like to be and if you have the dedication to stay there.
Seymour Snerd
Lifetime Supporter
Let me give you some advice: you will not, even in multiple lifetimes, learn what you need to learn by "asking here" what to do. Nor will you get what you need via "online learning".
You need to buy and read some books.
Start with an automotive dictionary eg Amazon.com: Haynes Automotive Reference Manual and Illustrated Automotive Dictionary (Haynes Techbook) (0038345021091): John Haynes: Books
Get and read cover-to-cover one whole introductory book on each of the following subjects:
- Engine design
- Chassis and suspension design
- Braking systems
- Transmissions and differentials
- Cooling systems
- Bodywork and painting
- Race Car Design (eg Amazon.com: Race Car Engineering & Mechanics (9781557883667): Paul Van Valkenburgh: Books)
And then, before you lay a hand or tool on any racing vehicle, including a GT40 replica, buy, read, and keep "Prepare to Win", and "Engineer to Win" by Carroll Smith.
And then, you need to get some experience.
Get the shop manual for whatever you have now, remove the engine, rebuild it down to the piston ring and bearing shell, and reinstall it. Replace the springs and shocks, brake rotors, and wheel bearings. Replace at least one section of brake line, one muffler, and the radiator.
If your "dislike" of "doing this sort of stuff" allows you to through that and the car still runs after 1,000 miles, you could proceed.
If not, there is an important message: as Ron said "then the hobby probably isn't for you."
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Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
Alan, don't show your age, here....or mine either
G, the most important thing is to know your limitations. I can do some things on my GT40- I can't do all of them by a long shot. The plain fact is that high-performance cars require high-performance owners (or rich ones) and high-performance technicians to work on them. The best way to know your car is to build it. But this isn't the best car to begin with, if you are going to learn how to build a car and how to work on it.
If you have some mechanical knowledge and can use hand tools, then you can begin to acquire the skills you will need to do a build of an entire car. But you would probably enjoy the process a lot more if you bought a roller car (like an RCR, Tornado, SPF, etc) and just installed the engine and transmission and got it running. Believe me, there will be plenty to do even starting with a roller. You still have to hook up everything, get it all working, bleed the brakes and clutch, etc etc etc etc. That is what I did on my Cobra, and even thought I didn't build the car from boxes of parts, it still feels very much mine.
You might also consider restoring a Ford car from the sixties to get familiar with Ford bits and pieces and so forth. You would have the chance to learn a lot about them and make your share of mistakes as we all have- at least I have. If you want to do that, and they are not prohibitively expensive in OZ, start with a sixties Mustang. They are neat cars, parts are pretty cheap, and they are simple cars. Same motor, basically, as most GT40s, too......
Good luck in your quest. You are asking the right questions.
G, the most important thing is to know your limitations. I can do some things on my GT40- I can't do all of them by a long shot. The plain fact is that high-performance cars require high-performance owners (or rich ones) and high-performance technicians to work on them. The best way to know your car is to build it. But this isn't the best car to begin with, if you are going to learn how to build a car and how to work on it.
If you have some mechanical knowledge and can use hand tools, then you can begin to acquire the skills you will need to do a build of an entire car. But you would probably enjoy the process a lot more if you bought a roller car (like an RCR, Tornado, SPF, etc) and just installed the engine and transmission and got it running. Believe me, there will be plenty to do even starting with a roller. You still have to hook up everything, get it all working, bleed the brakes and clutch, etc etc etc etc. That is what I did on my Cobra, and even thought I didn't build the car from boxes of parts, it still feels very much mine.
You might also consider restoring a Ford car from the sixties to get familiar with Ford bits and pieces and so forth. You would have the chance to learn a lot about them and make your share of mistakes as we all have- at least I have. If you want to do that, and they are not prohibitively expensive in OZ, start with a sixties Mustang. They are neat cars, parts are pretty cheap, and they are simple cars. Same motor, basically, as most GT40s, too......
Good luck in your quest. You are asking the right questions.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
I neglected to mention that there are lots of books and sources of information on restoring sixties Mustangs; they are popular cars, so you can learn by doing at minimal cost. And, if you do a good job, when you are done with the car, someone else will want it, if you don't, so you can put that towards your GT40.
Hey, guys....I just realized nobody mentioned the ERA products.
G-man, this might be more up your alley.....the ERA products are first rate (not that the others aren't), but ERA does something the others don't, they sort of "pre-build" the car's mechanicals for you.
Here's what I've HEARD about the ERA GT40 product...their body is spot-on, their product is first rate in terms of quality, the support from the factory is decent, and the best part is that many of the parts required to build the "kit" come already in place.
Not that the kit is "pre-built"....most all "kits" require you to disassemble the kit as it is shipped from the manufacturer in order to place many of those hidden items I mentioned in their required locations (wiring harnesses, coolant pipes, that sort of thing), but having the...shall we say....fuel pumps already attached to their brackets and mounted in the correct place on the back of the bulkhead when it comes from the factory eliminates those inevitable "what the hell is this bracket, where does it go, what does it hold, what holds it on" sort of dilemas.
The down side is that ERA products are in the higher-priced range, there was at one time a LOOOOOONG wait for them to produce your product (you have to put down a refundable deposit at the time you order), and I sincerely doubt that ERA has any representation in AU.
....however, it might address some of those issues we have all mentioned.
Here is a link to the only ERA build thread that I know of on the forum:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/32990-jims-era-build.html
I don't recall having jim update his build thread for quite a while, and IIRC the thread only has 2 pages, but Jim did help clear up some of the misunderstandings I had about the manner in which the ERA "kit" arrives, how much you have to do, what you can get the factory to do (the body is "bonded" to the frame, a process most ERA buyers have the factory do), etc.
Hope this helps.....
Cheers from Doug!!
G-man, this might be more up your alley.....the ERA products are first rate (not that the others aren't), but ERA does something the others don't, they sort of "pre-build" the car's mechanicals for you.
Here's what I've HEARD about the ERA GT40 product...their body is spot-on, their product is first rate in terms of quality, the support from the factory is decent, and the best part is that many of the parts required to build the "kit" come already in place.
Not that the kit is "pre-built"....most all "kits" require you to disassemble the kit as it is shipped from the manufacturer in order to place many of those hidden items I mentioned in their required locations (wiring harnesses, coolant pipes, that sort of thing), but having the...shall we say....fuel pumps already attached to their brackets and mounted in the correct place on the back of the bulkhead when it comes from the factory eliminates those inevitable "what the hell is this bracket, where does it go, what does it hold, what holds it on" sort of dilemas.
The down side is that ERA products are in the higher-priced range, there was at one time a LOOOOOONG wait for them to produce your product (you have to put down a refundable deposit at the time you order), and I sincerely doubt that ERA has any representation in AU.
....however, it might address some of those issues we have all mentioned.
Here is a link to the only ERA build thread that I know of on the forum:
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/gt40-build-logs/32990-jims-era-build.html
I don't recall having jim update his build thread for quite a while, and IIRC the thread only has 2 pages, but Jim did help clear up some of the misunderstandings I had about the manner in which the ERA "kit" arrives, how much you have to do, what you can get the factory to do (the body is "bonded" to the frame, a process most ERA buyers have the factory do), etc.
Hope this helps.....
Cheers from Doug!!
George
CURRENTLY BANNED
Hi
I was actually wanting the company (RCR/Tornado) or whatever, to build the entire car and then I just ship the car/turn key driver over.
ALl I have to worry about is 'mantaining' the car. Regular oil changes and whatever else is required to keep it on the road, not BUILDING the car as its complete with my 'idea' of performance and them selecting the parts that would achieve what Im envisioning. Thats more or less what I wanted to learn how to do and what tools would be needed for that.
If a part broke or somethine, I would try to replace it, if I had no idea how, and reading here would not help me replace that 1 part, then it would go to a Shop that I would ensure is doing it while I am there. But I do have friends that are mechanics that could do that sort of thing if needed I assume.
I was actually wanting the company (RCR/Tornado) or whatever, to build the entire car and then I just ship the car/turn key driver over.
ALl I have to worry about is 'mantaining' the car. Regular oil changes and whatever else is required to keep it on the road, not BUILDING the car as its complete with my 'idea' of performance and them selecting the parts that would achieve what Im envisioning. Thats more or less what I wanted to learn how to do and what tools would be needed for that.
If a part broke or somethine, I would try to replace it, if I had no idea how, and reading here would not help me replace that 1 part, then it would go to a Shop that I would ensure is doing it while I am there. But I do have friends that are mechanics that could do that sort of thing if needed I assume.