Why not a 351 Stroked ?

[Hershal Byrd]

Well our elustrious host is over on Cubcobra askin' questions about a 351 stroker. Well I went through those thoughts as well. I came to the conclusion that there was too much to change to get it to work. I'm not saying it's not possible just that the RFGT40 is specifically set up for the 302. You can get it in but you have to alter mounts because the engine won't sit right for the trans or the headers. The big problem is you will be needing more cooling for the extra cubes. All the brakets will be different for the alt. and AC . I'm sure there is more. But the biggest reason not to do it is you don't need it. The 427 MarkII's won Lemans because they were durable. They lasted longer for the 24hrs. They handled like crap compared to the small blocks.
The gas mileage on a 351 has got to be much worse than a 375 HP 302. If you want to tour with it the 302 is more user friendly. If you want to blow the doors off evrything you meet on the street then the stroker is a good choice. for speed, agility. and touring I like the little 302 stroked to 327

.

Boy Ron, you cut us to the quick by not asking that question over here first.

Hersh

 

[Guest]

I agree with you. The added deck height means new brakets for the Alternator and you may have clearance problems with the rear clip and the vlave covers.

 

[Ron Earp]

I also came to the same conclusion a long time ago too. Funny thing is, that post on ClubCobra is a three months old and for some reason has been revived. Check the date 6-18-01, before we had any forun for GT40s. And, it never drew many posts at the time.

My choice is already made and done: 342 SB. Now, if I can just get some headers for it....

And of course, I'd put those posts here now instead of with those folks.

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

[ September 21, 2001: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

351 in a '40....

I have first hand knowledge of the issues of a 351 in a 40. Safir GT 40 P1116 was owned by a friend, imported as a roller back in the eighties. He had Total Performance build a 351 for it after John Vermeersch convinced him a low stressed 351 would be superior to a 302. At the time the stroker kits for the 302 were not available so building a big cube 302 was an expensive proposition.

The problems were that the increased deck height and width caused clearance problems. First the lovely "bundle of snakes" 180 degree exhaust system Safir/JW Automotive provided had to be cut and have approx. 1" of tube added to each tube to work. Not a big problem just as the alternator was not a major issue. The biggest problem turned out to be that the inner panels of the rear body are exactly as on Mk 1 units. This means that when we put the deck on it would not close or clear the inner fiberglass! There are cooling ducts moulded into the inner panel that protrude into the engine bay, not problem with the narrower and lower 289/302 but they prevented the deck from closing with the 351 as the headers fouled the bulge. The solution has to cut the bulge away and cover the opening with aluminum. there still was very little clearance to the body panel and a lot of heats comes off those headers. I would assume that the Gulf cars that ran in 351 configuration had different inner panel design. I am not sure if this would affect a RF40, or other replicas and certainly is not an issue with a Mk II tail.

Today, I think it would hard to beat a stroked 302 in a 40. Looks right and should go like stink. BTW, rarely did anyone notice that the engine in P1116 was a 351, most all thought it looked like a 289/302. I understand that the current owner has converted it to a 427 setup.

The high point of my association with this car was driving it at the GT40 Reunion at Watkins Glen in 1989. While giving my son a ride I had the "honor" of blocking 1075s progress! What a rush to look in the mirror and see it full of that famous car that I also had the pleasure of seeing run at the Glen 6 hour races. I also saw John Wyer attempt to back the car out of the tech center and tear a large portion of the left rear flare of the body, must be wider than it appears in the mirror!

Rick

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Rick,
I am completely jealous! What a great story.
I wish that I could have been there for that reunion. Were you there when Fran Kress lost the front wheel?
If they ever have another reunion I believe it will be more popular than the first one.
Are you per chance in the video of the reunion?

Hersh

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Yeah Ron,
I saw the date, I was just giveing you the razz..

I got my headers last week. There is still the collecter parts missing. George says he will be sending them to the coater soon.

Hersh

 

[Ian K]

There was a gentleman named Rick Merz from
NC somewhere who had a GTD with a 351W. Bud
Jones in Livermore CA used to import GTD kits
and was the guy who sold the kit. At the
time, they worked everything out, 351W with
Webers, and something around 450HP. It was
featured in Kit Car Illustrated a couple
of years ago.

Ian

 

[Guest]

GEE, I GUESS I WILL HAVE ONE OF THE VERY RARE 351 STROKER MOTORS IN A 40

JAY
UNITED WE STAND

 

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Hershal,

I may or may not be the video dependant upon who's tape you have. I can supply a copy of the tape made by Fran Kress and his posse. I have been told that there is a long segment of my son (12 at the time) buckling into thr car that was shown on "the world of speed and beauty" that I have never seen.

Rick

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Hey Rick,
I've watched the reunion tape bunches and I see something different everytime. I am still learning about this car and I never grow tired of hearing stories about it or the people that own or love them. I truley hope there will someday be a GT40 replica and real event for us all to enjoy.
If that happens I will be the first in line, that is if Jay doesn't beat me to it.

Hersh

 

[Guest]

HERSH, I DIDN,T KNOW IT WAS A RACE

AND SINCE I HAVE NEVER TURNED ONE DOWN, LET THE GAMES BEGIN

. I TOO WOULD BE UP FOR SOME TYPE OF GET TOGETHER WHEN MORE OF US ARE COMPLETED. MAYBE NEXT YEAR? BUT THAT WOULD LEAVE BOB LAWRENCE OUT SINCE HIS CAR WON'T BE READY UNTIL SOMETIME AFTER THE 96 OLYMPICS

BY THE WAY MY MOTOR IS GOING IN THE CAR AS EARLY AS NEXT WEEK. GONNA BE CLOSE THOUGH SINCE I AM GOING TO RUN AND GUN ON TUESDAY.

UNITED WE STAND
JAY

SABRE GT40
351C STROKED TO 393
G5050 TRANSAXLE

 

[Guest]

Hey jay! hang on there. While you been waiting for parts from all over the world, I have been working away. While I have a day job you and Hershel should be done sooner than Ron and I. I would be willing to bet that Hershel is the first one on the road since he has your type of time and all the parts right in front of him.

 

[Hershal Byrd]

Hey Bob,
I think it would take me a lot longer to build too if I put a rivet every inch.

If I cut my finger one more time on this F#@**#+ stainless I won't be able to work for long as I only have seven fingers left in good shape. The other three are swollen from small cuts. Man this stuff is beautiful but hard on the skin.
I messed up my first panel yesterday but I don't feel bad about it because I figured out how to do away with those wierd little butterfly pieces. My way looks really neat and clean. I only have eight more pieces of metal left to fit then I will start riveting it on. I am trying to get as much done as possible before the 5th of Oct. That's when I leave for a weeks vacation in the camper.

Hersh

 

[Ron Earp]

Hershal,

You're doing well and taking care of business! My wife is heading to the beach next week with Sydney, therefore I am going to be working 5-7 hours/night trying to get some serious work done. Very hard to work on the car with the baby, but on the upshot it is easy to work on web stuff while feeding, changing, etc.

Ron

 

Ron,
I feel your pain. I don't have my car yet but I do have a little girl that's 15 months old. It's tough to get anything done. Hey what can I say the kid's not dumb she want's her dad. I AM the one that's going to have the GT, so if she's ever going to drive/race it she might as well start the butt kissing now. It's going to be really hard come December when the car arrives torn between the kid and the car. What's a guy to do? I quess a play area in the garage is in my future.
PS YES I LOVE MY WIFE TOO-without her I wouldn't have either of them.

 

Wives come and go but a GT 40 is a permanent life long fixation.