Remote Fire Systems

Ron Earp · 02-10-02, 10:34 AM

I'm going to put a fire system in my car with the mechanical "t style" pull handle. I figued I'd mount the bottle behind the drivers side in the rear area.

Anyone have experience with the SPA or Phoenix systems? I figured a 10 lb would be good, seems like there is plently of room for it. And type - Halon or AFFF? I'd suppose Halon but not completely sure.

R

Bill Bayard · 02-10-02, 10:47 AM

Ron,

I'm not sure about gas engines, but a diesel will run on Halon. They suck up the Halon before the fire is out. Most boat
owners who are aware of this have installed an engine cutout, which shuts down the engine(s) before it trips the Halon bottle.
As I said, I'm not sure about gas, but it
might be worthwhile looking into.

Bill

Brian · 02-10-02, 11:01 AM

Ron, I have been poking at this a bit, I currently am leaning towards Safecraft. The system will handle multiple pull handles and multiple discharge outlets. I have spoken with their technical guys and they seem pretty knowledable about the gasses and what it takes to knock down a fire. The system is a a spinoff of their Aircraft product line. It's been a while, but I think you can get your choice of gasses too. Brian

Geoff Deakin · 02-10-02, 12:50 PM

Ron,
We have been using SPA equipment in our rallycars for years. They know their stuff!
I am able to supply almost any motorsport equipment at discount prices.
E-mail me at gdeakon@mlprep.com with your requirements, and I will come back with an immediate price.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Geoff.

Geoff Deakin · 02-10-02, 12:51 PM

Ron,
I have mis-spelt my E mail address!!!
Go for gdeakin@mlprep.com

Apologies!!

Julian West · 02-12-02, 04:28 AM

Halon is no longer available in the UK.

when using a 'plumbed-in' system, It's worth keeping a small hand held aswell.

If you have a small fire, it can sometimes be more effective to give a concentrated burst of extinguisher, aimed directly at the fire, as oposed to 'flooding' the whole car with your plumbed in system.

02-12-02, 07:03 AM

Hi Ron

Halon should be a no no for you. It is being phased out as non CFC/ozone freindly or something like that. Also if you have a cockpit spray nossle, you may find yourself a little short of air to breathe as you try and get out.

Go AFFF as it is the stuff now accepted in all motorsport, or at least according to our rule books here!

If anyone is installing a system for use in UK they need to be aware of competition requirements (if that is where you intend playing with your car). Putting the trigger handle/switch in the cut out behind the door does not technically comply, although a lot of guys still have the pull handles there. The specified position for the extrernal pulls or switch is at the base of the windscreen on the drivers side. This is universal so all marshals know where to go irrespective of car, when you are crashed and unconscious....and on fire!

Electrical triggers are easy to install here but cable pulls are a bit more tricky. I run a mechanical cable trigger down to the front hinge bar and then back up inside the wheel arch. Works a treat but you need to ensure it does not corrode up and seize, so requires annual maintenace. I don't think readers here will have been introduced to my oily rag but it is a magical thing!

Positioning of the actual bottle should be inside the wheel base so it doesn't get wiped off in a crash. In the engine compartment is the easiest position but consider if there is an engine fire and the bottle pops before you trigger it. Also cable runs can become very long if you go to the front of the car.

Other positions people use is under the drivers legs (arguments for and against exist here!) or under passengers legs (no issues at all there!) or under dashboard where cabin heater etc go. Some even put it under front nostril section where GTD have the brake servos but this is potentially considered outside of the wheelbase.

Hope this helps

Oh yes, fires do happen. Once at Goodwood Tony Haliwell came into the pits with 4 feet of flames coming out the back of his 40. Marshalls quickly put it out but covered the car in the powdery stuff. Washed this off quickly as it can damage paint work (as if the fire didn't!) and then he had a look for the cause of the fire. It was a poorly made exhaust system that had blown its stuffing (even good systems blow their stuffing, so be warned) and had not been repacked. The resonance had cracked the steel casing of the silencer and blown super hot gases onto his number plate which had ignited. Then the bodywork and wiring loom caught fire. £500 later all back to normal. Got a photo somewhere of the mess. Personally I have cracked two silencers from this same problem so now keep a close eye on repacking them.

And there was the time Dave Parker was taking Jan his wife round showing just how good slicks really were. Came back into the pits and told Jan to get out of the car. She dilly dallied about a bit and Dave repeated his request and Jan told him she was getting out, whats the hurry. "We're on fire love!" Dave said, "F****** H***" said Jan and was gone!

Malcolm

Chris Melia · 02-12-02, 07:26 AM

Hi Ron
Fire bottle in the RML in the front passenger foot well is a good location
Chris.

Gary Gibbs · 02-12-02, 10:36 AM

Malcolm M:

How do you handle two releases? One for driver and one outside.

Thanks

02-13-02, 01:47 AM

Both releases go all the way back to the bottle trigger handle and so either will trigger release by itself.

Clearly in an emergency I shall only be bothering to pull one cable pull!

The internal pull is mounted on the dashboard in my car on the drop end of the dash behind the gear stick. It points slightly to the driver so is very handy to use. My bottle is under my legs so if all cables fail I can manually trigger the bottle direct. Purely for info, my electrical cut out is in this position too.

Malcolm

Malcolm

jimbo · 02-13-02, 12:12 PM

For those of us unfamiliar with these systems, can someone post a brief description of how they are set up and how they work? I gather there is plumbing running from the bottle to the engine room so that if the system is triggered the gas goes to the engine room.
Diesels may breathe Halon but people don't; also here is USA I think Halon 1301 is no longer available, unless as a recharge of old systems.
There are some marine systems available which have a fusible link in the discharge head which goes off automatically when the temp exceeds a preset level. They will also close a switch and turn on a discharge light if need be. They are mostly intended for closed engine rooms but might work on a car.

02-14-02, 05:28 AM

Hi Jim,

Don't over complicate these systems in your mind! They are very simple.

The bottle is comparable to your usuual fire extinguisher you see at work, although contents may vary. Squeeze the handle on that and a pin valve opens and extinguishant whooshes out. The cables or electrics just operate this handle from a distance. With electric systems either you still manually press a button to set it all off or it is automatic based on heat or normally G sensors. The latter is not what I would use as they are quite sensitive and a good jolt from a pothole might just trigger it. I have a 10 G sensor cut out on the fuel side of life and that triggered a switch off during my worst spin (to date). I would not have wanted the fire system making a mess then as well so my suggestion is stick to cable or manual electric operation.

Once triggered all the plumbing is just a long nossle to the expected base of the fire. Think of it as you would installing brake or clutch lines, but a lot easier to do. Normally these have push fit connectors and a plastic coated ali tube which is easily bent to shape. At the ends are the spray nossles or T connectors to branch off to more than one place of expected fire. I use two Ts so I have a nossle in the cabin and two in the engine compartment, one at the base of the carb and one over the fuel pumps.

When you buy a system it comes complete (or it jolly well should do) and will suit most applications. The bigger the bottle the more extinguishant you have to put out a fire. If you have lots of nossles you may well need a bigger bottle.

Again, don't go for Halon. It is being phased out soon, either this year or next. Although it might get another stay of execution yet as I beleive it was due to have been phased out a couple of years ago!

Hope this helps

Malcolm