New and nearly new engines

[Bill Musarra]

In the July issue of HOT ROD mag., there are two articles on engines that anyone looking should check out. The first is a 347R crate engine from ROUSH. Seems Jack has teamed up with World Products (originally for heads). There will be about 1000 or so produced. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
It will have a 4.030bore x3.400stroke, with the complete engine putting out 430 hp and 415 lb-ft for $7500. Long blocks for $6150 and short blocks for $3995 and will warranty them for 2 yrs/24,000 miles. The specifics are:

Forged H beam connecting rods
9.4:1 compression
World heads
64 cc combustion chambers
2.02/1.60 valves [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
Comp Cams hycraulic cam
.555/565-inch 224/232 degree duration @.050 inch.
112 degree lobe serperation
1.6:1 rocker arms
Edelbrock RPM airgap intake with 750 Holley carb,with K&N Air filter
MSD 8582 Pro Billet Dist.( 23 degree/ 35 degrees total )
Accel 276 or Champion RV12C plugs.
Oil windage tray

I think you would be hard pressed to beat that deal.

The other article is titled 650HP NASCAR small block for the street. The article is about Chevy engines but the same aplies for the Ford engines. Teams will "time out" engine parts before they are worn out. the cubic inches are a little funcky ( 357 ). The original article was in July 01. the source is Muscle Motorsports, one of the largest suppliers of round track used parts.
Sample prices:
bow tie block-1200
Billet cranks-950
aluminum water pumps-75
Jessel shaft mount rocker assembly-650

Some of these parts can be a good deal, but some can be team specific or even prototype. Complete engines is probably the way to go unless you really know your way around inside the small block. Since they ( Muscle ) build complete engines (Chevy ), they probably could/would build Fords as well. The "Chevy Street Fighter" engine dyno'd at 652 hp @ 7000 rpm and 507.4 lb-ft @ 6100 rpm. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
More than enough for me.
A good souce(s) for anyone looking for some serious power. Check it out. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
What are thoughts and feedback?
Bill

As mentioned in another thread, Roush also got the first production run of the new DART Ford, 4 bolt main, small blocks. So, be on the lookout for those.

If anyone is interested in obtaining one of these blocks, we can get a price break on 10 or more through a distributor who was recommended by DART. There is per unit pricing, through this distributor, on these in the Engines area of the forum.

[Gary Gibbs]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bill:

The other article is titled 650HP NASCAR small block for the street.
Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did they discuss total cost for these engines?

[RD40866]

Thought they said 12 to 18k typical. Go to www.musclemotorsports.com or call them at 1-877-6MUSCLE

Good luck all.

[Julian West]

I've been toying with engine ideas & (sticking with the 302) guessed the following spec from a real steel catalog....

Prices are in UK pounds & approximate!

all these parts added to my Marine 302;

Eldebrock Race Victor ally heads (2.05" & 1.60" valves) £1100
Eagle I-beam rods £300
Cam (?) hydraulic £150
hardend pushrods £50
lifters £50
windage tray £65
Gaskets £200
ally water pump £160
throttle bodies & manifold £1000 (?)
sundry £300

All the above comes in at under £3500 & I'm guessing that it would make 350 BHP? (would anyone care to guess at what RPM?)

*BUT* for £3200 I could buy a complete crate motor from Ford giving 345 BHP! altho it comes with no induction...

So whats the best path? the crate engine looks to be really good value, but would it be as good as my own spec??

Anyone got any ideas??

[Gordon Levy]

We build a simular package all the time with more hp and costs less.

[Bill Musarra]

Gordon,
Can you gives us a breakdown of the parts utilized/dyno#s/price(s) for the 302/347. Any warranty by chance? I'm not fishing for an ad, but some numbers would be nice.
Bill

[Julian West]

I'd also be interested. The 345 bhp crate motor seems amazingly good value, hard to beat, considering my spec doesn't include any labour cost!

Is there a kit of parts (ideally available in the uk) that will give more power for less money as you suggest?

[Ian K]

Julian,

I think you should see more than 350HP
with that equipment. And, with some
simple porting of the heads (just some
gasket matching, 302s breathe quite well
without extensive porting), 400HP is not
out of the range of possibilities.
All depends on how you tune the intake,
what cam grind, etc.

To get an idea, check out

http:/www/dssracing.com

Bill,

Here's form an older post about Gordon's
engines:

Robert, I'm glad you like the engines. The
306 is over 450hp and 380 lbft of torque. it
was designed as a budget minded road race
engine. The specs are;

.030 302 block
steel crank
long H beam rods
Main girdle
forged pistons 11-1 compression
Custom solid flat tappet cam
Victor Jr heads

we do offer a couple of upgrades for this
package. 1 is a solid roller cam, 2 sportsman
block, 3 port work. we can also do some
compression changes depending on how you want
to use this engine. The price on the base
comfiguration is about $8000 U.S. without
induction.

The 342, we have made some changes to this
engine and it is now 347 cid. The engine is
laid out like this:

.030 block
steel crank
I beam rods
Forged pistons 10-1 compression
Custom designed hydrolic roller cam
victor Jr heads

This is a 6500 rpm engine and I believe we
have about 50 more hp than the 342 I sent to
Robert (originally 436HP/410lbs/ft -- Ian).
This engine is priced at $5000
without induction. You can use ether a carb
or injection on these engines.Feel free to
ask question.

HTH,

Ian

[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Ian K ]

[Gordon Levy]

Our 347 or as we call it our stage 4. We resently made a couple of changes to this engine. With a hydraulic roller cam we have right at 500hp and 440lbft of torque. With a solid roller and 11-1 compression it is closer to 575hp and 475lbft or torque. These are using some custom cam profiles that we design here.

[Martin Weigold]

Gordon,

My engine build is almost complete now so it is rather late in the day to look at the "crate option". However it does strike me at good value given what I am forking out for my modifications.

It is due to be tested on the dyno next Friday and I will report back on perfomance to everybody after that.

Can somebody tell me how much I would have to pay (approximately of course) in shipping charges and import duty if I had bought a crate engine from the US and shipped it over to the UK.

Thanks, Martin

[Gordon Levy]

for the price, crate engines are good value. It really depends on what a person is looking for in an engine. If you want a decent engine with good hp for the street then a crate may be the way to go. If you want something that you want to track or race, then a custom engine will be better for you.
A hand built custom engine is a far better piece than a mass produced crate engine. Comparing apple to apples, a crate engine with 320hp and a custom built engine with the same components, the custom built engine will produce more hp, more reliably, and at higher rpms.

[scott]

Gordon,
I am doing my best to pick-up new high-quality parts here and there and saving money in the process. I have acquired a new billet 3.4" crank and new 5.315" Carrillo rods so far. Like most, I would like a motor that runs very strong (440 lb/ft sounds pretty good) and is reliable for short trips to 7K rpm w/ a Kinsler-type EFI. Could you recommend an aluminum head that would be a good starting point?

Thanks,
Scott

[Gordon Levy]

The Edelbrock Victor Jr works great on this type of set up, and they are cost effective.