I'm getting fed up with the Forum, I'm getting fed up with reading dreamers messages about how they must have 500hp engines and 600lbs torque transmissions. It seems to me that the forum has become hijacked by people building cars or dreaming wannabees, but we hear little from the people who have completed cars and who use them regularly. I monitor the forum daily, and have smile at a lot these messages, such as the recent discussions on transaxles. In the UK, the GTD40 car club guys race almost every weekend in serious competition, and use on average 302cu.in/350hp engines and renault gearboxes. A few guys have more powerfull engines, and one runs a ZF, but the fact is they are using these cars to a much greater extent than I can see anyone else is doing, and much more effectively. Visit the GTD club web site, download some of the action video, and then join the real world. If you must spend thousands and thousands of $ on the most expensive bits, so be it, but it is not a prerequisite to owning and using a 40, we prove that!
Dreamers World
- Thread starter wealdenengineer
- Start date
I have to agree. On the BHP claims I am particularly sceptical of the crate engine claims that have been made. If you can get a great 500 BHP engine for $6k bucks from Ford, why does a Lamborghini Diablo or similar exotica with this kind of power output cost $250,000?
It would be very informative if someone actually tested one of these crate engines on a dyno to see what it really puts out at the fly wheel - using the correct barometric settings of course. Otherwise you can get whatever power reading you want.
Sorry everybody, just my opinion
It would be very informative if someone actually tested one of these crate engines on a dyno to see what it really puts out at the fly wheel - using the correct barometric settings of course. Otherwise you can get whatever power reading you want.
Sorry everybody, just my opinion
Frank
Overpowering these cars can be dangerous as well. Halfshafts can snap, rods can come through blocks and keeping them cool,especially on the street, can be very difficult. The basic engineering on these cars was done 35 years ago. One of the reasons they won was they were under stressed. As Mark Donohue said:"They were built like trucks and drove like Caddilacs."
Overpowering these cars can be dangerous as well. Halfshafts can snap, rods can come through blocks and keeping them cool,especially on the street, can be very difficult. The basic engineering on these cars was done 35 years ago. One of the reasons they won was they were under stressed. As Mark Donohue said:"They were built like trucks and drove like Caddilacs."
Neal
Lifetime Supporter
Frank,
I envy your situation. I live in an area were motorsports are a relatively low priority. During the summer I would run my Cobra at any possible open track session or autocross. Very few others in that group had an interest in competive racing. Rest assured, when my car is complete, the only thing you'll see are event pictures and war stories. 41 posts to date in the Quaife box, hell, I'm stuffing a $250 Audi box in and driving it like I stole it!
Keep the faith, in the mean time I'll live vicariously through Malcom's course descriptions and your club's event captures.
I envy your situation. I live in an area were motorsports are a relatively low priority. During the summer I would run my Cobra at any possible open track session or autocross. Very few others in that group had an interest in competive racing. Rest assured, when my car is complete, the only thing you'll see are event pictures and war stories. 41 posts to date in the Quaife box, hell, I'm stuffing a $250 Audi box in and driving it like I stole it!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F CATT:
[QB]I'm getting fed up with the Forum, I'm getting fed up with reading dreamers messages about how they must have 500hp engines and 600lbs torque transmissions. It seems to me that the forum has become hijacked by people building cars or dreaming wannabees, but we hear little from the people who have completed cars and who use them regularly.
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Frank,
If someone hasn't been working with gt40s they will tend to try to attribute characteristics of other cars they think are similar. With Vipers, Lambos, Ferraris, and plenty of other cars racking up the bhp and torque numbers, its not surprising the same numbers are applied to the GT40s by the "Dreamers".(Which, incidentally, I would classify myself as
) I also think this site needs dreamers to provoke questions, and I appreciate the different levels of experience provided by this forum. No matter what stage you're at (from researching to driving), it seems there are people on here who will help and share what their experiences are-Pretty nice for a site that doesn't even appear to be a year old?
I too would love to hear more from different drivers about their experiences with different engines and setups that maximize the potential for the car. I have a heckuva time finding ONE to see or ride in much less different setups-especially since I don't have a 60k wad of cash in my hand as of yet.
Until then, I can only assume the numbers game or dyno scenarios will produce what I want/expect from this car. Of course, I would be happy to be proven wrong with a demonstration
Ok, that's my .02$- Now back to planning and saving.
-MaTT
[QB]I'm getting fed up with the Forum, I'm getting fed up with reading dreamers messages about how they must have 500hp engines and 600lbs torque transmissions. It seems to me that the forum has become hijacked by people building cars or dreaming wannabees, but we hear little from the people who have completed cars and who use them regularly.
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Frank,
If someone hasn't been working with gt40s they will tend to try to attribute characteristics of other cars they think are similar. With Vipers, Lambos, Ferraris, and plenty of other cars racking up the bhp and torque numbers, its not surprising the same numbers are applied to the GT40s by the "Dreamers".(Which, incidentally, I would classify myself as
I too would love to hear more from different drivers about their experiences with different engines and setups that maximize the potential for the car. I have a heckuva time finding ONE to see or ride in much less different setups-especially since I don't have a 60k wad of cash in my hand as of yet.
Until then, I can only assume the numbers game or dyno scenarios will produce what I want/expect from this car. Of course, I would be happy to be proven wrong with a demonstration
Ok, that's my .02$- Now back to planning and saving.
-MaTT
I would like to think I graduated from the "dreamer" category when I unloaded my Roaring Forties kit into my garage. Unfortunately, I don't expect to be able to post driving impressions or chit chat about track events until sometime in 2004. And my understanding is that this forum is intended to help GT40 builders at least as much as those who are able to drive their cars.
Sitting next to my chassis are two big hunks of metal. One is a balanced and blueprinted 347 stroker with ported Holley heads, 11:1 compression, a cam that provides almost 0.6" of lift, and an 8-barrel EFI system. Properly tuned, this engine should be good for ~450 hp at the flywheel. Sitting next to that engine is a transaxle from a 160 hp Audi. I don't think I'm being overly paranoid because I'm concerned about the longevity of my gearbox, and I continue to research alternative gearboxes that will cause me less concern.
I think there may also be a cultural difference here between US builders and those in the UK. Many Americans participate in drag racing and a number of the US GT40 builders come from this background and are accustomed to high horsepower V8s. The ready availability of parts, expertise, and relatively low fuel costs in the US makes it not difficult nor unusual to build a 500 hp engine.
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
Sitting next to my chassis are two big hunks of metal. One is a balanced and blueprinted 347 stroker with ported Holley heads, 11:1 compression, a cam that provides almost 0.6" of lift, and an 8-barrel EFI system. Properly tuned, this engine should be good for ~450 hp at the flywheel. Sitting next to that engine is a transaxle from a 160 hp Audi. I don't think I'm being overly paranoid because I'm concerned about the longevity of my gearbox, and I continue to research alternative gearboxes that will cause me less concern.
I think there may also be a cultural difference here between US builders and those in the UK. Many Americans participate in drag racing and a number of the US GT40 builders come from this background and are accustomed to high horsepower V8s. The ready availability of parts, expertise, and relatively low fuel costs in the US makes it not difficult nor unusual to build a 500 hp engine.
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]
As someone who has driven these cars for over 30 years IMHO a slightly detuned motor will make them much more enjoyable on the street. As far as transmitions, on the street, straight cut non syncro boxes aren't as much fun as you think they will be. I've done that but I don't anymore.
There is a big HP race in the US these days with the NASCAR popularity and proliferation of parts. It is amazing that you can buy sets of aluminum heads from many US manufacturers that flow like a mad man for under $1600 a set complete ready to run. You can buy factory direct engines relatively cheap or have your own built. For example Ford offers a 345HP 302 for ~$3100, a 385HP 351 for ~$5500, or a 430HP 383 based 351 for ~$6000. The crate big block 514 CI 600 HP engines have been quite popular in Cobra Kit Cars. Are these HP numbers real? Don't know. I bet they are close though. The new Viper is going to have 500 HP and so will the new GT40. Don't forget the MK II and Mk IV had over 485 HP.
Obviously HP is not everything as you see cases of Lotus 7 replicas with 150 HP out running high HP Cobras and the like on the track. However if you look at the Car and Driver One Lap results for the last several years you will see that a Superformance Cobra has placed as high as 4th overall against some modern day machinery. This year a Grand Sport Replica placed 2nd overall. Both these run ~450 HP small blocks.
I personally like to build things once if possible. I will not put questionable item into service because I do not want to pull it out again. Many years ago my straight 6 motor in my CJ-7 went out and I upgraded to a 350 V-8 doubling the HP of the vehicle. This totally changed the character of the vehicle. Yes it is not as safe as a normal CJ-7 I guess. But I would venture to say that I am much more safe driving that vehicle then the average CJ-7 driver is driving a stock vehicle. Like anything you have to be careful with what you have. And each person is free to enjoy what he wants.
The stock CJ-7 trany (rated for 200 ft-lbs) went out after about 30,000 miles behind the v-8 (100,000 miles overall) and you can bet I did not just rebuild it. I adapted a Borg Warner T-19 truck trany. That was 9 years ago and I am confident that trany will not break.
I think the point at the forum should be to make the GT40 the best vehicle we can. If there are improvements that can be made then we should share the information and enjoy the experiences. For example, I don't think anyone would currently consider using OEM small solid disk rotors on a GT40 when the current crop of alternatives are available.
It is great to see the UK guys competing their cars and I hope that the growth of the GT40 in the US will allow the same thing to happen over here.
Obviously HP is not everything as you see cases of Lotus 7 replicas with 150 HP out running high HP Cobras and the like on the track. However if you look at the Car and Driver One Lap results for the last several years you will see that a Superformance Cobra has placed as high as 4th overall against some modern day machinery. This year a Grand Sport Replica placed 2nd overall. Both these run ~450 HP small blocks.
I personally like to build things once if possible. I will not put questionable item into service because I do not want to pull it out again. Many years ago my straight 6 motor in my CJ-7 went out and I upgraded to a 350 V-8 doubling the HP of the vehicle. This totally changed the character of the vehicle. Yes it is not as safe as a normal CJ-7 I guess. But I would venture to say that I am much more safe driving that vehicle then the average CJ-7 driver is driving a stock vehicle. Like anything you have to be careful with what you have. And each person is free to enjoy what he wants.
The stock CJ-7 trany (rated for 200 ft-lbs) went out after about 30,000 miles behind the v-8 (100,000 miles overall) and you can bet I did not just rebuild it. I adapted a Borg Warner T-19 truck trany. That was 9 years ago and I am confident that trany will not break.
I think the point at the forum should be to make the GT40 the best vehicle we can. If there are improvements that can be made then we should share the information and enjoy the experiences. For example, I don't think anyone would currently consider using OEM small solid disk rotors on a GT40 when the current crop of alternatives are available.
It is great to see the UK guys competing their cars and I hope that the growth of the GT40 in the US will allow the same thing to happen over here.
There are a couple of things that are lost on most of us Americans. One is irony, the other is elegance or refinement. I think those two things put together probably account for most of the cultural differences that Mark refers to...
I have the dyno map of LeMans which records the 24 hour test they did on a MK-IV motor before the 1967 race. They broke the track down to small increments and determined rpm,hp, and shift points. The engine did make 485hp at 6800rpm but they did not run it there. During the race they tried to limit it to 6200rpm. As far as solid rotors go my MK-IV,Lola T70, and Ferrari P4 all have solid rotors and seem to provide adequit braking.
Best
Best
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: CCX33911 ]
Chris
It's not so much the tailpie emmisions that come out of my MK-IV as the liquid gas if you back off to quickly....
It's not so much the tailpie emmisions that come out of my MK-IV as the liquid gas if you back off to quickly....
Ron Earp
Admin
Frank,
I have to agree with you to some point - it isn't a lot of fun bench racing things to death that are not really tangible, provable, or definite.
But, I'm building as are a lot of my US breathern and we hope to have a striving GT40 community soon.
What these folks say about geography is true though - heck I don't think there is a running GT40 within 4 hours drive of me. Blackjack has an ERA in Virginia, but he's over 4 hours. There are some being built locally but they're not done yet.
I think in 2003 and 2004 though "that certain sound" will be heard, at least a lot on the east coast.
I'll keep building, I'll let the others keep dreaming, and I hope to join you soon in driving!
Ron
I have to agree with you to some point - it isn't a lot of fun bench racing things to death that are not really tangible, provable, or definite.
But, I'm building as are a lot of my US breathern and we hope to have a striving GT40 community soon.
What these folks say about geography is true though - heck I don't think there is a running GT40 within 4 hours drive of me. Blackjack has an ERA in Virginia, but he's over 4 hours. There are some being built locally but they're not done yet.
I think in 2003 and 2004 though "that certain sound" will be heard, at least a lot on the east coast.
I'll keep building, I'll let the others keep dreaming, and I hope to join you soon in driving!
Ron
Ron Earp
Admin
Martin,
while the UK has a big jump on us with chassis and GT40 design, we've got a big jump on the UK in Ford power - especially where I live in North Carolina in the heart of NASCAR country (I don't like NASCAR but it gives us a lot of engine shops and down home motor skills here).
500 hp crate motors from Ford and others are available cheaply. And they are 500 hp, assuming a 15% drivetrain loss. I've seen lots of them lay down serious hp numbers with nothing more than good cams, manifold, heads, rotating assemble, and attention to details.
While not as sophisticated as motors from Ferrari etc. they're a hell of a lot bigger and cheaper with relatively low-tech components. I just think a V8 is a lot cheaper to build here in the US than elsewhere - this is the home of Ford and GM.
Ron
while the UK has a big jump on us with chassis and GT40 design, we've got a big jump on the UK in Ford power - especially where I live in North Carolina in the heart of NASCAR country (I don't like NASCAR but it gives us a lot of engine shops and down home motor skills here).
500 hp crate motors from Ford and others are available cheaply. And they are 500 hp, assuming a 15% drivetrain loss. I've seen lots of them lay down serious hp numbers with nothing more than good cams, manifold, heads, rotating assemble, and attention to details.
While not as sophisticated as motors from Ferrari etc. they're a hell of a lot bigger and cheaper with relatively low-tech components. I just think a V8 is a lot cheaper to build here in the US than elsewhere - this is the home of Ford and GM.
Ron
I think Mark has stuck a cord by identifying a cultural difference regarding horsepower. Most guys round here have been raised on drag racing, and more recently NASCAR, where big time HP wins the day.
Put a 40 on a twisty track and it just ain't so! My friend Malcolm in the UK has admitted to a chincy 350 hp in his GTD and he has been consistently finsihing very high in the rankings.
Personally, I think that an excess of 400 HP in a replica will cause most (I said most) drivers to develop some very bad habits. I'd rather hone my skills at being smooth, and conserving energy, learning when to properly brake and knowing the best lines through the curves rather than waiting for the straights and burying my foot into the floor, only to loose time it the corners. And oh ya, these cars will spin pretty nicely when you loose it. So tune my engine down and maximize my handling.
Brian
Put a 40 on a twisty track and it just ain't so! My friend Malcolm in the UK has admitted to a chincy 350 hp in his GTD and he has been consistently finsihing very high in the rankings.
Personally, I think that an excess of 400 HP in a replica will cause most (I said most) drivers to develop some very bad habits. I'd rather hone my skills at being smooth, and conserving energy, learning when to properly brake and knowing the best lines through the curves rather than waiting for the straights and burying my foot into the floor, only to loose time it the corners. And oh ya, these cars will spin pretty nicely when you loose it. So tune my engine down and maximize my handling.
Brian
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F CATT:
I'm getting fed up with the Forum, I'm getting fed up with reading dreamers messages about how they must have 500hp engines and 600lbs torque transmissions. It seems to me that the forum has become hijacked by people building cars or dreaming wannabees, but we hear little from the people who have completed cars and who use them regularly. I monitor the forum daily, and have smile at a lot these messages, such as the recent discussions on transaxles. In the UK, the GTD40 car club guys race almost every weekend in serious competition, and use on average 302cu.in/350hp engines and renault gearboxes. A few guys have more powerfull engines, and one runs a ZF, but the fact is they are using these cars to a much greater extent than I can see anyone else is doing, and much more effectively. Visit the GTD club web site, download some of the action video, and then join the real world. If you must spend thousands and thousands of $ on the most expensive bits, so be it, but it is not a prerequisite to owning and using a 40, we prove that!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just to get back on topic
Since F CATT mentioned my post specifically I will bite. I have ENJOYED this forum for those constructing or going to construct GT40's. The level of technical exchange has been great and compared to the relative "noise". I do visit www.clubcobra.com, but get frustrated by reading through the huge amounts of noise to get to some meat.
F CATT: When I read your post I have to laugh. Reminds me of the noise at clubcobra.com You are welcome to ignore all of the threads (such as the tranaxle thread) that you want. No one is forcing you to read them. You are likewise welcome to add any new threads that you want about how great it is to drive your GT40. I certainly enjoy those threads I have read in the GTD Club area for example. You can try to take back the hijacked forum
from all the "dreamers" and "wannabees."
The beauty of life is that people can make choices including how, and why they build their GT40's a certain way and how, why and where they drive their GT40's. I am very interested in information exchange such that we are left with choices to make and decisions to make. I love the design and engineering aspects of racing cars and like to discuss them where applicable to a GT40 in this forum. Call me a "dreamer" if you like. I do prefer engineer and scientist, but if you must dreamer will suffice.
I'm getting fed up with the Forum, I'm getting fed up with reading dreamers messages about how they must have 500hp engines and 600lbs torque transmissions. It seems to me that the forum has become hijacked by people building cars or dreaming wannabees, but we hear little from the people who have completed cars and who use them regularly. I monitor the forum daily, and have smile at a lot these messages, such as the recent discussions on transaxles. In the UK, the GTD40 car club guys race almost every weekend in serious competition, and use on average 302cu.in/350hp engines and renault gearboxes. A few guys have more powerfull engines, and one runs a ZF, but the fact is they are using these cars to a much greater extent than I can see anyone else is doing, and much more effectively. Visit the GTD club web site, download some of the action video, and then join the real world. If you must spend thousands and thousands of $ on the most expensive bits, so be it, but it is not a prerequisite to owning and using a 40, we prove that!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just to get back on topic
F CATT: When I read your post I have to laugh. Reminds me of the noise at clubcobra.com You are welcome to ignore all of the threads (such as the tranaxle thread) that you want. No one is forcing you to read them. You are likewise welcome to add any new threads that you want about how great it is to drive your GT40. I certainly enjoy those threads I have read in the GTD Club area for example. You can try to take back the hijacked forum
The beauty of life is that people can make choices including how, and why they build their GT40's a certain way and how, why and where they drive their GT40's. I am very interested in information exchange such that we are left with choices to make and decisions to make. I love the design and engineering aspects of racing cars and like to discuss them where applicable to a GT40 in this forum. Call me a "dreamer" if you like. I do prefer engineer and scientist, but if you must dreamer will suffice.
G
Guest
Guest
The shortest post from me ever:
VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!!!!!
VIVA LA DIFFERANCE!!!!!
Ron Earp
Admin
And, Martin and others about high buck 500 hp exotics engines - I often see it the other way around as I've mentioned before.
550 hp XXXXXXX supercar - but check the trap speed in the quarter mile and things seem amiss. Elapsed times vary with lots of factors, but trap speeds are fairly consistent and pretty much tell the tale of how much horsepower was used or was needed to get a certain terminal velocity.
Many times XXXXXXX supercar in the latest issue of Car, Road and Track, Car and Driver etc. have a 500+ hp machine through the traps at 110mph, 115mph, etc. prove the engines aren't generating what is claimed accounting for losses etc.
Same was true when I used to drag race - I don't know how many times I heard "I'm putting out around 400 hp", but the fellow can't turn 100mph in the 1/4 with a 3100 lb car. No dice. The 1/4 is just a big dyno, but a fun one.
Now, sometimes people do have the goods at the track and show it. Like here on the board with those fellows in the UK with GT40s with 137mph, 128mph, etc trap speeds as posted eariler in the year are really generating the hp they claim. That's what I like to see and hear about! That's a supercar!
Good thread - nice to see people fired up!
R
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
550 hp XXXXXXX supercar - but check the trap speed in the quarter mile and things seem amiss. Elapsed times vary with lots of factors, but trap speeds are fairly consistent and pretty much tell the tale of how much horsepower was used or was needed to get a certain terminal velocity.
Many times XXXXXXX supercar in the latest issue of Car, Road and Track, Car and Driver etc. have a 500+ hp machine through the traps at 110mph, 115mph, etc. prove the engines aren't generating what is claimed accounting for losses etc.
Same was true when I used to drag race - I don't know how many times I heard "I'm putting out around 400 hp", but the fellow can't turn 100mph in the 1/4 with a 3100 lb car. No dice. The 1/4 is just a big dyno, but a fun one.
Now, sometimes people do have the goods at the track and show it. Like here on the board with those fellows in the UK with GT40s with 137mph, 128mph, etc trap speeds as posted eariler in the year are really generating the hp they claim. That's what I like to see and hear about! That's a supercar!
Good thread - nice to see people fired up!
R
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
So this topic certainly has got people excited!
As you know, we nearly all use Ford small blocks in the UK GTDs. The comment questioning the horsepower of the crate engines is simply based on our experience in the UK. We know that we pay higher prices for everything in the UK than in the US. Unfortunately that is not disputed!
However, when we look at the parts that the crate engines are assembled with, and then their claimed outputs, they are not in line with our experience when we put similar engines on the dyno. And this is despite our engines using the same or superior parts to what the crate engines are claiming to use and after having them fully balanced and tuned professionally. My engine was in fact built by a company (She Devil Racing) that also builds dragsters for racing at Santa Pod and the engine was tuned and tested by the company that builds racing engines for the GT sportscar championship leading cars (Saleen).
I would love to find out that the outputs on the crate engines are as claimed - if they were, then I would consider shipping one across as it would be cost effective to do so. I am therefore genuinely interested to see one of these crate engines put onto a dyno to see if it comes out where the vendors claim they will.
As you know, we nearly all use Ford small blocks in the UK GTDs. The comment questioning the horsepower of the crate engines is simply based on our experience in the UK. We know that we pay higher prices for everything in the UK than in the US. Unfortunately that is not disputed!
However, when we look at the parts that the crate engines are assembled with, and then their claimed outputs, they are not in line with our experience when we put similar engines on the dyno. And this is despite our engines using the same or superior parts to what the crate engines are claiming to use and after having them fully balanced and tuned professionally. My engine was in fact built by a company (She Devil Racing) that also builds dragsters for racing at Santa Pod and the engine was tuned and tested by the company that builds racing engines for the GT sportscar championship leading cars (Saleen).
I would love to find out that the outputs on the crate engines are as claimed - if they were, then I would consider shipping one across as it would be cost effective to do so. I am therefore genuinely interested to see one of these crate engines put onto a dyno to see if it comes out where the vendors claim they will.
Ron Earp
Admin
Might be a difference in what I'm thinking of crate. I consider crate engines to be engines put out by shops as well as Ford that are ready to stuff in with front dress and the usuals.
I have found that here in the US if one were to take say, $4000, and price out engines you'll get a lot better deal from a engine shop with GOOD parts than from Ford.
My own is an example. I was able to get a 342 with forged parts throughout, H beam rods, girdle, AFR CNC ported heads, race baffled oil pan, etc. for a little over $4000 while Ford's own stroker is around the same money with cast bits throughout along with their sometimes spotty assembly.
But, that being said I've seen that 514 motor they sell make 510 rear wheel hp in a buddies fox chassis Mustang with an intake bolted on, headers, and a carb. And it was running really rich so there was more to come. That is a lot of hp for not much money! How long will it last - I don't know. He's still running it and has been for about 1 year. But, I'm sure you can beef it up on the cheap, at least around here.
Enough of this I got to get in the garage!
R
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
I have found that here in the US if one were to take say, $4000, and price out engines you'll get a lot better deal from a engine shop with GOOD parts than from Ford.
My own is an example. I was able to get a 342 with forged parts throughout, H beam rods, girdle, AFR CNC ported heads, race baffled oil pan, etc. for a little over $4000 while Ford's own stroker is around the same money with cast bits throughout along with their sometimes spotty assembly.
But, that being said I've seen that 514 motor they sell make 510 rear wheel hp in a buddies fox chassis Mustang with an intake bolted on, headers, and a carb. And it was running really rich so there was more to come. That is a lot of hp for not much money! How long will it last - I don't know. He's still running it and has been for about 1 year. But, I'm sure you can beef it up on the cheap, at least around here.
Enough of this I got to get in the garage!
R
[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]
