48 Ida Webber Induction

[Lynn]

Click image for auction

Starting bid:....$12K
Located: ........San Ramon, CA
Seller:.............christopher9957( 0 )

Text from auction:
This is the original Webber Induction set up that was used on the GT-40 and the AC Cobra R 289 small blocks. Complete system includes: 48 IDA carbs, ORIGINAL COBRA casting manifold, Billet fuel rails with fuel pressure gauge, center pull heim joint type throttle linkage, throttle cable mount bracket, 4 WarneFord air cleaner assembly (some still in their original boxes), and COBRA casting water outlet Y.

The complete setup was bolted to an engine, synched and tuned, never used or even had a throttle hooked up. It was later pulled from the test bed engine and stored indoors in a climatically controlled environment. I have owned it for 22 years, and have NEVER seen another (except on a real GT-40 at the historics).

Target customer will be the owner of a real GT-40 or AC Cobra small block. This is the area people with replicas can't duplicate accurately, and is the first dead giveaway that their car is a replica, so the serious enthusiast looking for authenticity found just what it takes. This system dwarfs the 44's and 46's, will fit 289's and early 302's, and is said to be "The Rolex of induction systems". It flows about 2350 CFM and is streetable for you replica guys, having no plenum allows very radical cam profiles, without normal scavenging and rough idles!

Other pics:




Lynn

[Doug Sainlar]

Sweet!!!!

Doug

[JimmyMac]

Hmmm ?

[HILLY]

Does Hmmm mean that they are over priced Jimmy or a 'love to have but!!!'
This is the second time that these have come up for sale. Very much a love to have but you can do a lot wit 12K. But then again!!

[JimmyMac]

Peter,
Twelve grande is a lot for any manifold. NOS Italian Webers fetch $600+ each.
So "Hmmm" is this instance was in regard to it's worth to me in my own opinion.

The seller quotes a set up on an original engine but how much is that worth now ? - as it does not come with the said engine's camshaft, lifters and engine specification etc so the "set-up" will have to be re-done anyway.
So I think it's just a nice manifold.

Incidentally, I personally have not seen a fuel pressure gauge on a original GT40 fuel header, "solid billet on the outside" or otherwise. Anybody else seen one ?

Another question : do those "1015" markings have any significance to a GT40 ? If it does, I thought that P1015 was a MKII.
I could be completely wrong so comments are truly appreciated.

[Jem]

I can see something on these that I think suggest that they are later reproduction carbs!!

[John W]

James,
its not an FE manifold, so definitely for 289 or 302 use and not 427.
Besides, the 427s in a 40 used single or dual holley setups.

I doubt the 1015 you see has anything to do with a chassis number either as imo its a webber casting mark, not an engraving mark.

I too think its a serious amount of money. You can buy a new manifold from H&M for less than $1k, and as said above any provenence it had is now lost without the rest of the engine...

[Doc Watson]

I have a few problems with this setup, maybe you could answer a few questions I have James.....

Ok, first off the price.... way to much. A Google of '48 ida' gives me a new carb at $499 each thats $2000 total ref:-

Weber Carburetors Carbs 48 IDA

The manifold can be bought off the shelf, although price is unknown..ref:-

Ford V8 Manifolds

And the carbs dont look like they have been stored for 22 years.... in fact they look exactly like the new re-released 48 IDA carbs.

The pictures below show two shots of my 48 IDA's followed by the new weber IDA and finally the ebay sale.

The new IDA has a casting lug on each side of the main casting and a slight web on the foot of the casting (Shown circled in black) which is the same as the 'original' for sale on ebay which also has the web where the carb ID is stamped.

There are a few possible explinations....
1) Some guy bought the parts new and is trying to sell them as NOS.
2) There are a few different casting versions of the IDA's out there

and ....... I shudder to think.....

3) My IDA's are not original and the others are!!!

Jimmy help!!!!!!!!!!

[HILLY]

Mmmm….It has gone from being over priced to sounding a bit suspect.

Doc, your castings read ‘made in Italy’, do the re-released items have this same casting detail and where are the re-released items actually made??

James, how readily available are the NOS Italian Webers.
Any suggestions where to start looking??

[Lynn]

Has anyone asked the seller about any of this? I see no questions listed on the auction.

If you'd like to ask questions (or see more photos) click the first picture in my post and it will take you to the eBay auction.

Lynn

[Doc Watson]

"Original Weber 48 IDA's were manufactured in the early 60's. By the late 80's, production moved to Spain, where the 'Made in Italy' embossing was replaced with 'Made in "blank" ' and then was discontinued in the late 90's. In September of 2003 Weber 48 IDA's were remanufactured."

"...early IDAs that are identified by studs and nuts (for top cover, velocity stacks, and jet screens), plus a float bowl drain plug, brass squirters, and embossings of BREVETTATO as well as E above W and MADE IN ITALY on the floar bowl exterior, and more embossed lettering of CARBURATORE over WEBER and BOLGNA ITALY on the top cover.

ref : - CB Performance - Feature Articles

They say in the article that they are reconditioning original 48 IDA carbs which have the side lugs on the main body and also the extra web where the ident is stamped..... I guess there must be different versions of the main body casting out there.

Jimmy... your picture of 48 IDA's (shown in first pic below) show the side lugs and the stamping web, so what do I have??????

and just to add to the confusion... all references to a 48IDA exploded view (shown below) show the main body casting without the lugs and the web at the foot of the main casting.

[JimmyMac]

Doc,
It's also a mystery to me why your IDAs have no lugs.
I have five NOS Bologna carbs here with lugs and the web, and also all the markings as you described for Italian Webers.
Just to throw fuel on the fire check out the picuture of P1008 showing lugs on it's Webers.

[Jac Mac]

One clue to the origin of these may be the''' 4 Warne Ford ''' Air cleaner assy's which if memory serves me was an Australian Co that made aftermarket bits like aircleaners etc. These manifolds / Carbs were available thru selected Ford dealers in Aust during the late 1960's as part of the Shelby/Ford performance parts scheme. If this is the case they could be off any Mustang /Falcon of the day and be like the proverbial axe that has had 5 handles & 3heads but still that same old axe.

Jac Mac

[Doc Watson]

I found these pics of.. "68 or so vintage EMPI 48IDA kit. Check out the instructions. Included is the linkage, 48 ida carbs and intakes. Very rare kit indeed!"

(about midway down the page...)
Engine components

68 IDA's and no lugs... I must have early IDA's huragh!

So the question now is...

Were there 2 main body castings for IDA's from start of production (early 1960's in Italy) or did the lugs and stamp web start later? maybe when production moved to Spain?

Did the, now to be named as lugless IDA's (the ones I have and also the ones shown in photos below) stop being produced at some point?

....always the same... answer 1 question and 3 more questions need to be answered....

[Sandy]

What about the assembly with screws vs studs and nuts? Does that indicate some age or time period of production? The ones on ebay were screws which I thought were only on later production.

Side note on prices, I think a set of Black Tag webers and cobra manifold were sold in the 12k+ range, that were from an early Cobra, seems like a year or two ago.


Sandy

[JimmyMac]

Doc,
Did not Empi sell custom Weber IDA set ups for VWs etc ?
That big spring looks like part of a throttle for an in-line double twin arrangement.

I am no expert, I have seen early IDAs with a printed aluminium maker's plate on the front, but also believe your pieces are obviously earlier than the ones with the lugs (as in the JW diagram) because I think these "lugs" are a modification to the original casting for an adjustable throttle stop stud.

As to timing of the throttle stops ? I don't believe it has anything to do with the Spanish production more a development by Weber Bologna to suit different engine set ups.

Question - Are P1008's Webers original 60's period from the Slough factory because the rest of that engine is ?

[JimmyMac]

Doc,
Just to confuse you even further.
Here is a photo of both types of Webers atop of an original Gurney Eagle engine.
So I'm not too fussed as to which is which.

[Doc Watson]

Nice photo Jim