RF Situation - A bit of information related to other posts

[Ben Buchsieb]

Andre,

After the latest posts, I did some thinking and realized the following:

Yes, I would allow CAMCO to finish my #110 if I got my deposit back. However, I would not allow CAMCO access to the money. It would have to be held in escrow until the car is finished. This would still not allow CAMCO access to the working capital needed so, is what you said still vaid that CAMCO can rise from the ashes?

Ben

[Mitch D]

Andre - thanks for the info, but alas, it's too little too late to help anyone.

Bill - your little anecdote may be funny, but it's not even close to the scenario we're talking about here. In your quaint little allegory, the heroine is nothing more than a whore who is trying to figure out how to gain some money for herself while "putting out" as little as possible. Her "boyfriend" is all too happy to pimp the girl out for some gain presumably for himself too.

In Andre's real life scenario last fall, he had an opportunity to help many others besides himself.

Sometimes, when you see something you know is wrong, you have to reach deep down inside and do what you know is right even though it may require you to do a gut check yourself.

Andre - I have a follow on question for you. What is your motivation with your latest posts and pics of the red MKII? Is there some fiduciary agreement between you and the manufacturer? I would just like to understand your rationale for hyping the car/manufacturer.

MD

[Andre40]

Hi Ron, Oliver and others who don’t want to understand my explanation,

I’ll try to explain it all over in simple terms in the hope that you’ll now comprehend:

1. APART FROM HAVING BEEN ROBERTS ‘EYES AND EARS’ FOR TWO AND A
HALF MONTHS I NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH EITHER CAMCO OR RF, IE NOT A PARTNER, DIRECTOR OR SHAREHOLDER. JUST A TEMPORARY, UNDERPAID AND HELPFUL WORKING IDIOT.

2. I GET SHOT AS THE MESSENGER BY ROBERT FOR MY SUPPOSED POOR
REPORTING.

3. I WORK FULL TIME INCLUDING WEEK-ENDS AND EVENINGS FOR THE
EQUIVALENT OF US$645 PER MONTH. THE SECOND MONTH, IE
SEPTEMBER I GET PAID THREE WEEKS LATE BECAUSE MR LOGAN CAN
FIND THE TIME TO GO ON A LENGHTY HOCKEY TOURNAMENT. FOR
OCTOBER, MY LAST MONTH, CAMCO PAYS ME IN JANUARY. DO YOU WORK
FOR THAT SORT OF MONEY, RON?

3. IN ADDITION, TO ILLUSTRATE MY SUPPORT I GAVE CAMCO TWO FILING
CABINETS, LENT IT TWO DESKS AND LENT ROBBIE MY OLD 1984 FORD
SIERRA STATION WAGON HACK FOR FIVE MONTHS AFTER HIS CAR HAD
BEEN STOLEN. I DON’T WANT TO SOUND PETTY BUT AT THAT TIME I
WAS GIVING THE CAMCO/RF ASSOCIATION MY BEST SHOT IN ALL WAYS
IN THE HOPE THAT IT WOULD SUCCEED. I GET SHOT FOR THE SECOND
TIME BY MY WIFE (QUITE RIGHTLY) FOR BEING AN UNDERPAID AND
HELPFUL IDIOT.

4. WHEN I QUIT ON OCTOBER 23 (AND I’M SAYING THIS FOR THE LAST
TIME) I KNEW THAT THERE WERE ON GOING NEGOTIATIONS TO RAISE
ADDITIONAL CAPITAL TO ENSURE THE FUTURE OF CAMCO SO THAT IT
COULD BUILD FOUR RF CARS PER MONTH. NOW HOW THE HELL COULD I
HAVE MADE NEGATIVE POSTS EITHER ON A PUBLIC DOMAIN OR BY
PRIVATE E-MAILS AT THE TIME. ANDRÉ 40 PUTS HIS NECK IN NOOSE BY
SO DOING. SUBSTANTIAL CAPITAL IS RAISED THEREAFTER AND THE
CAMCO/RF ASSOCIATION BECOMES HUGELY SUCCESSFUL. ANDRÉ 40,
STICKS HIS NOSE IN WHERE IT DOESN’T BELONG (ONCE AGAIN) AND
ENDS UP WITH A $10 MILLION LAW SUIT AROUND HIS NECK FOR
DEFAMATION. I MIGHT BE AN IDIOT BUT NOT THAT MUCH OF AN
IDIOT.

5. FOR THE SECOND, OR IS IT THE THIRD TIME, I GET SHOT AS THE
MESSENGER OR MORE CORRECTLY FOR NOT BEING THE MESSENGER BY
AFFECTED RF CUSTOMERS.

6. RON, WHEN I STARTED IN AUGUST THERE WERE FOUR PARTLY
ASSEMBLED CHASSIS ON THE FLOOR, US 108 AND 109 AND UK 118 AND
119. WHEN I LEFT IN OCTOBER THERE HAD BEEN LITTLE ADVANCE ON
THE CARS AS I EXPLAINED IN MY DETAILED REPORT. IF YOU THINK
THAT PHOTOS OF THOSE CARS WOULD HAVE BEEN EXCITING IN THEIR
UNFINISHED STATE I GLADLY WOULD HAVE TAKEN THEM BUT IT DIDN’T
OCCUR TO ME AT THE TIME. I POSTED THE HI-TECH/SUPERFORMANCE
PICS AT THIS TIME FOR GOOD REASON. I HAVE BEEN RELIABALY
INFORMED THAT BECAUSE OF THE RF DEBACLE SOUTH AFRICA’S IMAGE
HAS TAKEN A KNOCK WHICH IS GROSSLY UNFAIR, AS UNFAIR AS THE
FINGERS NOW POINTING AT ME. JIMMY PRICE’S SOUTH AFRICAN
OPERATION IS HUGELY SUCCESSFUL AND I BELIEVE PROOF THAT WE
ARE NOT A BUNCH OF USELESS, INCOMPETMENT IDIOTS UNABLE TO
COMPLETE AND DELIVER CARS. BEAR ALSO IN MIND THAT IT WAS THE
CAMCO TEAM THAT DEVELOPED JIMMY’S MONOCOQUE IN CAPE TOWN.
I’M SURE THAT TIFF NEEDELL DRIVING JIMMY’S SUPERB RED MK11
AROUND CAPE TOWN’S KILLAREY CIRCUIT MAKES FOR A FAR MORE
EXCITING PHOTOGRAPH THAN UNFINISHED CHASSIS.

7. I MAKE A POSITIVE POST TO SUGGEST A RESCUE PACKAGE AND BLOW
ME DOWN I GET SHOT AGAIN. I’M LOSING COUNT, FOR THE FOURTH OR
FIFTH TIME? EVEN MY ACCOUNTANT FRIEND SHOOTS ME, NOW MAYBE
SIX TIMES IN ALL. I’M BEGINNING TO THINK THAT I MUST HAVE BEEN
A BAD BASTARD IN MY PREVIOUS LIFE.

8. I’VE BEEN A FREELANCE JOURNALIST FOR 40 YEARS AND BELIEVE THAT
I HAVE A GOOD COMMAND OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE AND AM ABLE
TO EXPRESS MY THOUGHTS CLEARLY IN THAT LANGUAGE. AFTER
THREE EXPLANATIONS AS TO WHY I COULDN’T MAKE NEGATIVE
REPORTS ABOUT THE RF SITUATION IT STILL SEEMS TO FALL ON
DEAF EARS. PERHAPS I SHOULD TRY GERMAN, FRENCH, SPANISH
HEBREW. OR WOULD FINNISH BE THE ANSWER?

Wondering what I’m doing in the GT40 business
André 40



PS For some time I’ve been negotiating the local build of three British sports cars.
The names of two will come as a surprise when it happens. When it does I’ll
wave goodbye to GT40s and possibly also this forum, which would be a great
pity as I’ve enjoyed my three years as a member.

[Andre40]

Hi Ben,

After my rant I'll continue to be positive. Even now after a blast from my accountant friend this morning I still believe that there could be a light at the end of the tunnel.

In negative situations such as these I often despair at the irrational thinking of my fellow human beings, not to mention hidden agendas or certain people spotting opportunities for themselves.Then there is also the German word, 'schadenfreude.'

I quote - MANY OF LIFE'S FAILURES ARE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT REALISE HOW CLOSE TO SUCCESS THEY WERE WHEN THEY GAVE UP. I've done that myself in the past and hell it won't happen again!

Hi Mitch,

I don't know if you read all my Tff Needell posts. I explain in (verbose?) detail why I support Jimmy and no he's never paid me one cent and nor have I asked for any financial reward. Could it be that once again I'm a helpful idiot! But then Jimmy and I are talking about a joint venture project and believe me it's NOT a GT40!!!! Maybe there's a reward down the line.

Many moons ago I did a Dale Carnegie course and all I can say is think POSITIVE!
Andre 40

[Ron Earp]

Andre, as I wrote, I understand your position and I do not envy it at all. I simply wish some other way could have been found for insuring that a large number of folks didn't get burned in this situation. Yes, it is personal for me since I'm about to eat a $37,000 "investment". But I don't blame you for your actions, nor am I accusing you of doing something wrong.

I do believe it true however that there were individuals who knew the situation was not recoverable - one of which would be Robert Logan, but undoubtedly there were others too. It is a shame that those folks could not have found a way to alert the potential customers. Heck, it could have even been done here under a fake user name and that would have been enough to put friends of the forum into action all over the world to find out the real deal.

I know for a fact that if a handful of people would have communicated, say in Australia, South Africa, and the US, that enough pieces could have been assembled to get a true picture of what was occurring. And at that point some conclusions could have been drawn and decisions to bail could have been made.

But even if they did alert the customers, say in November or December of 2005, and a decision to bail was made I don't think the money was there to be returned to the customers. I think the money was already being put to use to cover debts in SA, Australia, and suppliers etc. in other places. Point is, worrying about someone blowing the whistle is probably mote because indivdual recovery was probably out of the question then.

To make a few questions from my perspective:

2) I'd imagine Robert difficult to work with. Chalk it up as his loss not yours.

3) No, I don't work for $645 a month now. But I have before, and will again if I need or find the perfect job that I love.

5) I'm not shooting at you.

6) I think the SA operations have taken a hit by this, at least for RF customers and probably others as well. Unfairly yes, because Superformance nor CAV asked for the RF debacle and subsequent failure.

8) I would dare say you are one of the most succinct writers on the forum and have had a very interesting life involved with sports cars all over the world.

Sorry to hear that you wish to leave the forum. But, not all times of interacting with forum members will be rosy, I can assure you of that. My wife asks me why I spend time moderating, answering emails, helping folks, and sometimes fighting with them as well. I guess about all I can say is I get to meet some fantastic people - that makes it worthwhile.

Ron

[Oliver]

Very nicly put Ron!

It is obvious that the passion and the anger is going to take along time to recover from. We have no reason to be agry at andre. He did what was best for himself. So now we move on and try to anserw all the un-anserwed questions. One thing andre you did not responde too is the photo's of the cars In SA. Is it possible that you can get some detailed pictures of what stages the cars are in?


Regards
Oliver

[David Morton]

I imagine that Andre Loubser may well post some pictures, as and when. Cape Town can be a very small, often parochial
place and often reminds me of Jersey - very insular. I would not have expected Andre to have done anything different. I hope his mention of leaving the GT40s.com
website is in haste and if he reflects on it, he will
put aside some of the comments that have been made (some in a red mist). This guy is trying to do something positive to help though he may be swimming up stream while everybody else is swimming the other way.
Dave M

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

Wow....what a difference 30 days makes! Now OLIVER is being honored and Andre is being dissed! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

While I think I understannd the frustration of those RF customers who got burned, taking shots at Andre will not solve the issue.

And as I understand it, under UK (and other former colonial territories who base their legal sysytem on HM's) it is VERY easy to sue and win for "libel, defamation and slander) unlike the US where despite easy pickin's for lawyers, those charges are very difficult to sue for and win...you can get paid for a hot cup of McDonalds coffee but someone calls you a sheep buggerer and you have no chance. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bash.gif[/img]

Lets not alienante people who are telling us stuff we may not want to hear but need.....

Rick

[Tim Kay]

A while back I made a comment that said something to the affect that “funny we’re not hearing a word from Andre……….’. Boy, do I feel guilty now.

I, for one, owe Andre an apology for not being sympathetic to his situation. After hearing it, I would have handled it exactly the same way he did.

If anything, what I really miss is Andre’s participation on this site. I can always count on Andre chiming in with some interesting read regarding history to these great cars that we all have such a passion for. Andre reminds me of Barry McGuire on Car Crazy, enthusiastic and energetic about the past and willing to share his wonderful experiences.

Andre, don’t leave, it’s not the same around here without you [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flehan.gif[/img]

[Keith Hardy]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/zzzzz.gif[/img]

[Mike Dozier]

Anyone who think Andre should have spilled the beans
on Robert is unreasonable. Legally untenable to be sure.
However confirming his resignation would have been
an appropriate response to those inquiring his status.
I guess he was hoping Mr. Logan would work it out.

Even if Mr. Logan refunds the debts involved...I'd
be curious how many would now be willing to purchase
an RF from him under any Contract terms.
People have long memories...

MikeD

[Keith Hardy]

[ QUOTE ]

Even if Mr. Logan refunds the debts involved...I'd
be curious how many would now be willing to purchase
an RF from him under any Contract terms.


MikeD

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[Pete.]

There is no way Andre could have spoken out any earlier than he has without risking a lawsuit.End of story.

[Ross Nicol]

Ok here is the best one yet.I've just heard from a fairly new RF customer who has only just learnt of the RF demise.He paid $6,000 deposit originally but get this, he was asked for, and paid $12,000
on the 8th of March, now the administrators were appointed on the 21st of March.So 13 days later they go broke and the Captain didn't know when that $12,000 payment was made, his ship was sinking!
I've withheld this customer's name but you can treat this as factual.
Ross

[Ron Earp]

Hi Ross,

I also was contacted by this fellow and referred him to the administrators. I also have created a timeline of deposits via month from speaking to affected parties around the globe so that I could determine cash flow versus dates and sent this to the administrators. The fellow that contacted me about the March deposit - I was not sure if it was March 2005 or 2006, and emailed him to clarify. I think it was 2006, but just wanting to make sure and the administrators will verify with him.

Ron

[Oliver]

Practice target

OHSAMA BENROBERT

[Bill D]

I have been watching this situation unfold for some time now. I have not responded since I am unaffected by the events. However, I just feel a need to write.

There is so much information flying around that it is difficult to sort out the facts from the rumors. But as a minimum, numerous people lost sizeable amounts of money. That is a fact! And that tarnishes the replica community as a whole.

I truly feel sorry for those who lost money, especially given the fact that Mr. Logan was well aware of his company's deteriorating financial condition. Some will be able to recover and buy another GT40 from another manufacturer. Others may have lost their dream entirely. I hope Mr. Logan can sleep with that thought.

I find him to be a despicable person, without character, and fradulent. These are my impressions only as I know others will surely jump to his defense. But I doubt any of those who lost money (and faith) will be one of his supporters.

I hope some good comes from this terrible situation. I really, really do.

Respectfully
Bill Dobbins
Camarillo, CA