RF Situation - A bit of information related to other posts

[Ben Buchsieb]

Andy,

Why are you choosing now to look into this matter...or, at the least, telling us you are now looking into it?

I don't doubt your validity to the claim just the timing of it.

Ben

[RobBeddington]

Ben

I can't speak for Andy but, hypothetically speaking, if I designed something that a business the other side of the world decided to use as a basis for their product, it would be difficult and costly to pursue. But if that business went bankrupt and its administrators advertised the business to include the sale of what I consider to be my IP rights, then that would motivate me to stake my claim, whether I got any cash out of the deal or not.

[Mark Worthington]

I find the concept of replica car intellectual property rights, whether asserted by Robert Logan or by Andy Sheldon, to be both ironic and laughable. Robert used to get his panties in a twist over non-RF customers even looking at the RF Construction Manual, let alone the RF chassis or adapter plates.

Now, Andy, are you really threatening to claim IP rights and get in line as a creditor to RF's assets? Yes, they are both replicas of a Ford GT40 but there are significant differences between the RF and Tornado cars, particularly in the chassis. I'm not a lawyer but, in my opinion, you have a pretty weak case in an IP claim unless you have any patents to protect you. Otherwise, the people who lost their RF deposits have a more tangible claim to RF's assets than you do, and I would suggest you be gracious, step aside, and return to your prosperous business rather than spend money on lawyers.

[Jerry]

Andy,
If the rf body is actually based on your product, then does your body come with all the same faults of the rf, such as front clip curling in at the rear, rear clip 1/4 inch low at the front edge, etc,etc. if yours dosent, then how can it be a copy?.
Why didnt you take legal action about a year or so ago, when the RF's started to arrive in the UK?
Why bring it up know?
Ive toured your factory and Roaring Forties factory and its was obvious to me that the bodys are not alike.
wishing you all the best in your quest, jerry
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dead_horse.gif[/img]

[Oliver]

I have seen both frames and they look very identicle with some minor changes.

[Steve Kulper]

Andy,
What car did you use to take a mould off? Does it mean that whoever has some right to the original GT40 can come and chase you down? It's a large enough world for co-existence, I believe any copyright or design right if it's unregistered can only last 10-15 years, if you have been around 22years i don't like your chances.

Steve

[Bernie Knight Aussie kid]

Andy

Sorry mate but coin a phrase..

"You are pi$$ing into the wind.."

For absolutely zero dollars I will give you what i believe is sound legal advice. That is if you choose to take it. I stand by it.

'Without prejudice'...Hahhhhh haaa!!!

Firstly as stated - the obvious - RF GT40 is currently in the hands of administrators and the list of creditors is both long and possibly exceeds the assetts held by RF GT40.

Secured creditors will get preference and these include in no order;

# Staff wages, staff superannuation and holiday pay.

# The Australian taxation office,

# Banks that may hold second mortgages on any property placed as security. etc. etc.

To date you are not listed as a creditor.

Basically, any dollars you spend from this point onwards would be 'excercise' benefit only.

Just my opinion and free of charge. However, my waiver is.... seek paid sound legal copyright or patent advice if you feel inclined. Don't try and do this yourself without paid advice, and even then only if you want the excercise.

I can always remember my law class lecturer telling us..."a client who represents himself, has a fool for a client"

Good luck mate.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dead_horse.gif[/img]

In Australia I think we call this flogging a dead horse!!!!

[DAZPT]

Bernie you have PM

Darrell

[Andre40]

I've done my best to explain the situation.

People will always view issues differently.

I leave it to forum members to be judge and jury.

This whole RF saga has been of no benefit to me and has in fact cost me a great deal of time and money.

I now have positive business ventures to pursue.

Good Bye,
Andre 40

[Bernie Knight Aussie kid]

Andre

Good luck with whatever venture you pursue.

Every now and then we strip a bolt or break one off in a thread. As simplistic as it is, we just persist because we enjoy being involved with cars.

Your explanations have been both clear and concise.

I have tried to defend agents in the UK and the USA whom seem to be wearing some flack. Guess it must hurt you all when those throwing barbs are not even customers?? And I am not a customer.

To all the loyal staff and those involved in Sth. Africa I hope that something else comes along that proves more rewarding.

Whilst I did spend sometime with RF GT40's staff in the USA, I regret that I did not make it to Sth. Africa. Perhaps in the future, as I have an aquintance there who is racing and building Cobras.

Again good luck.

[Ben Buchsieb]

Bernie,

Whom are you and what is your reason for posting now on this sensitive subject? What is your intention? Unlike the rest of us, you gave nothing prior to this debacle.

Again, why are you here posting?

[Bernie Knight Aussie kid]

Ben,

Having registered on this forum a few days after you, I thought I should try and catch up to you with my 'Posts"

That's why I'm here posting.

If it is vital to know who I am I suggest that you read my profile here on the forum.

If you feel inclinded PM me and as I'm in Knotts, LA, Glendale and Phoenix down town this week. You can buy me a beer and I'll tell you a little more about me.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

On second thoughts... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dead_horse.gif[/img]

[Ian K]

Looking at the old Tornado webpages (via the Internet Wayback
machine) as well as the chassis pictures from Paul W and on
Tornado's own current website, I would actually say the GTD
and MDA chassis are closer to Tornado than RF. The front end
all the way to the firewall is very different, the fuel cell
area differs. About the closest similarities are from the
back of the cockpit to the rear.

But that's just my opinion. I'd have to blow some pictures
up and look more closely, but the differences between RF
and Tornado are much more significant than Tornado and GTD
developed cars AFAICT.

Ian

[Howard Jones]

Andre, I fully understand that you wish to end your comment's concerning the RF Issue. This not only understandable but your right. I would however encourage you to continue as before on other subjects of our common interest.

I have enjoyed you professional writing style and the clearly informed subject matter many times.

Take a well deserved breath. I hope to hear from you again. Good luck to you.

[Pete.]

Andy,
IMHO any one who builds a replica gt40, or for that matter a replica of anything will end up with something that looks like the original. Otherwise it would not be a replica would it. Therefore a CAV will look like an RF, or a DRB, or a RCR and so on. Of course, some will have space frame chassis while others will be mono, some will be better built than others and all will be different to varying degrees. But I think it would be very very difficult and expensive for any replica builder to try to prove IP unless patents had been taken out. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

[Keith Hardy]

Well, if it was your car that was featured in a rival's advertisment, then you'd be a bit pissed too, even if your thoughts of "revenge" weren't exactly practical. I reckon Andy's just letting off a bit of steam is all. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Pete.]

Keith,
I would be more than pissed off, and if that happened Andy has every right to be unhappy. I was just trying to point out that trying to prove I.P. in this sort of situation makes lawyers rich and everyone else poor. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]

[Tim Kay]

[ QUOTE ]
I would however encourage you to continue as before on other subjects of our common interest.

I have enjoyed you professional writing style and the clearly informed subject matter many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto, right on Howard [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif[/img]

[Peter D]

If Andy (Tornado Sports Cars) has RL's original order from 1994, and was even vaguely monitoring what was going on the GT40 world (ie, couldn't miss RF's web-site / Forum talk, etc), then how come there was no action regarding IP until now ??

What an inopportune time to even think about belatedly adding themselves as yet another creditor (and so potentially dilute even further, the pittance that the real "victims" (deposit payers, suppliers & staff) might receive) !

Having a shot at the "RF remains" now will not affect RL at all (morally or financially) - it may simply heap further damage on those that can least afford it.

Moral outrage at the "theft" of IP at the time it is recognised is one thing, but maybe maybe someone was waiting for RF to get much bigger & fatter before striking ? Tough luck & too late - missed the boat.

Put simply : "Very Poor Form Old Chap" !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.