GT40 Australia #27 - Page 6

flatchat(Chris) · 04-03-06, 02:08 AM

Is it a roller cam motor ? As a long distance guess , a lifter retainer has failed and said lifter is now at 90 deg.to the cam and thats probably Dodo as well [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif[/img]
Hope me wrong [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Peter D · 04-03-06, 06:23 AM

Yep Chris, it a roller cam & roller rocker setup - Tickford cam, standard 95 Mustang lifters (new) & an FPV rocker set.

The nasty noises are coming from the front RHS of the rocker cover - I must admit that there has been "ticking sound" coming from that area of the engine for quite a while.

Not being an engine expert at all, I thought (wished) that was normal ! - I guess not !

The odd thing is that it still runs ok - no missing, etc. If a roller lifter has rotated 90deg, then I would have to assume that the camshaft is buggered ?

I have an expert coming over this week with his stethoscope & other bits of kit, so I should know more then.

BTW, can you run an SBF without a rocker cover (without ending looking like you just escaped from an oil rig disaster) !?

"Life wasn't meant be be easy" as someone once said !!!

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

flatchat(Chris) · 04-03-06, 06:57 AM

Just slip the covers off, you'll soon see something amiss.
Some other possibilities :- broke spring,broke spring retainer,broke rocker arm,bent push rod. The thing that seems to happen with roller lifters is with the heavier valve spring loads - causes hammering of the lifter follower resulting in skidding on the cam until total failure or otherwise the lifter guide plate has failed and let it(lifter) rotate which creams the cam that turns into lapping paste and explores the whole motor [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img]
Please have a good nights sleep now [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] 'tis all fixable

Peter D · 04-03-06, 07:10 AM

Thanks for that mate - I shall now enjoy a Vallium-induced night of rest !!!

Yes, it is all fixable, but those that fix are likely to be already booking their "good night's sleep" on some bloody island in the Whitsunday Passage !!!

I'll keep you posted !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

JackW · 04-07-06, 11:46 PM

Hi Peter

I have just noticed this but your side windows don't seem to be screwed in like a lot of GT40's. You may have mentioned this in your build forum somewhere but are they power windows, or even regular wind up windows? I vaguely recall reading somewhere that DRB offered a power window option. I also noticed that your window has a seperator effectively making it 2 window pieces. I would be interested to know a bit more about your setup when you get a chance.

Cheers
Jack

Peter D · 04-08-06, 04:28 AM

Jack, they are a Mk3 option from DRB - a f/glass frame that I bolted in place much like the full standard perspex windows (but some guys glass them in). The aly frames are from DRB - the quarter window is fixed, & the main window is hinged at the front & has a "flip-over" type latch at the rear. The whole main window can be very easliy removed if you like.

Not as elegant as wind-up windows, but they do allow good ventilation & easy assess for paying tolls on motorways !

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

Peter D · 04-09-06, 02:20 AM

Chris, we took the rocker covers off & found nothing amiss - all was rock-solid & being oiled correctly.

So I reckon we have a guide-plate / lifter failure & a stuffed cam.

A "real engine" has been on my to-do list for ages - the current one (ex 95 Mustang) was cobbled together in indecent haste to get the car tested for emissions before the rules changed from 37-01 to 79-00. It got a hone & re-ring, new bearings & new cam - that's about all.

Rather than more band-aids, I am inclined towards just biting the bullet & going for the "real engine".

A crate engine is becoming my favoured option, although I probably only need a short block as I have the AFR heads & all the other bits.

What I really need is a local Ford SB expert who can help with the specs & the build - if I go this way, I'll probably make it a mild stroker (say around 330ci). I know nothing about how you spec the pistons get to desired 10:1 c/r & keep valve clearance, pick the right cam, pushrods, etc, so I really would like to just hand the guy the whole car as-is & let him figure it all out, then build & install it. (R&R of engines & gearboxes is getting beyond me - physically & mentally !).

Once it is ready, I can get my Autronic expert to visit the w/s, reset the ECU side of things & test.

Its a plan, which is way better than no plan, & its going cost a bit (but a "real engine" has always been on the list anyway).

Any tips on things I should look out for ? (Eg - 2/4 bolt mains, stud girdles, I/H beam rods, forged crank, etc - bearing in mind that its not going to raced seriously & is unlikely to ever see more than 6000rpm) ?

Thanks & Kind Regards,

Peter D.

Steve Kulper · 04-09-06, 06:42 AM

Hey Peter,
Put a chevy in it [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

Steve

Peter D · 04-09-06, 07:05 AM

Cheeky Boy !!

Know any good local Ford experts ?

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

Steve Kulper · 04-09-06, 05:48 PM

I don't know anyone personally Peter, here is a good article on how they build some awesome crate engines. They look very proffessional and reliable, the 500 horsepower they produce is great. here is what you want .

Steve

Bill Musarra · 04-09-06, 09:55 PM

Peter,
I have collected over the last few years, many articles about different aspects of my build as I would run across thim in the various performance mags. Some are marginal. What I do have is some good articles on crate engines, Windsor buildups, different strokers you can build, and what is behind the builds. I can scan them and send them your way. Would make for interesting reading if nothing else. If you would like them, I will start the process. I will send them as I finish scanning them so it won't clog your mail box. If nothing else it will give you some ideas about what you might actually want.

Bill

Peter D · 04-10-06, 02:16 AM

Bill, that is a hugely generous offer & is really appreciated ! I would hate to put you to the trouble of sending everything, so maybe if I sketch out my current thinking, it might help you cull out some stuff & lighten the load ? :

- Current setup is a stock 95 Mustang block, rods, crank, plus a "200kw Tickford cam", AFR heads, FPV roller rockers, & a DC&O 8-stack + Autronic ECU.

- New engine : Re-use the AFR's, roller rockers & DC&O/Autronic setup. Mildly stroked short block (say 330ci), set up for about 10:1 c/r, & a more interesting cam.

The intended use is 95% road / 5% track, & reliability is a bigger issue than power. I doubt it will ever see more than 6000rpm, so I really can't justify going to extremes like the World block, etc.

So if you have anything on a "mild stroked, streetable" buildup, it would be very much appreciated.

Thanks Again & Kind Regards,

Peter D.

flatchat(Chris) · 04-10-06, 05:53 AM

Pete ,if it was up to me ? I would only do a full rebuild of what you have, using quality top end gear, a performance cam and complete balance -- add a windage tray to the bottom end. It'll be driveable and reliable !
Unless you would really like to see mechanics/engine builders enjoy themselves on their immediate vacation [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Bill Musarra · 04-10-06, 05:54 AM

Welllll O K I'll leave out the one on 700HP At The Wheels[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banana.gif[/img] and send the mild stuff. But I think you're missing out on the fun stuff. I mean, if your going to spend the money, you might as well go on and get a second mortgage and do it right. Give the neighbors something to really crow about!!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif[/img]

Bill

Peter D · 04-10-06, 06:47 AM

Chris, that was my first intention, but most of the guys I have spoken to reckon that it would probably be cheaper & quicker to just start with a clean new short crate engine. What are your thoughts on this ?

Bill, its ok if you leave out the 700hp option ! But you have started the evil bug in the brain going again ! Let's say $5k ? for a mild stroker around 350hp, then $7k ? for a 450hp monster - that's only $2k difference (10 good dinners) ! I don't have any real costs as yet, but it seems that you can get a lot more hp in the mid-high range for not that much extra dollars - its only when you go to the top end that things get out of hand ?

I am a total sucker for the up-sell (explains how the Vette project went from a $15k mechanical repair job to an $80k total resto) - my wallet cringes every time it hears me say "well, seeing we've gone this far, ........" !!!

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

Tim Kay · 04-10-06, 07:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
my wallet cringes every time it hears me say "well, seeing we've gone this far, ........" !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

flatchat(Chris) · 04-10-06, 08:13 AM

The new short crate will need to be pulled to bits for a proper balance and piston valve clearance machining if you have the big valve heads etc. Reworking a "seasoned" block has advantages if its still under .030" overbore.Otherwise by the time you crack test and lick up the crank,hot tank-deck-bore and torque plate hone the block -- fit new pistons, rings,slippers,cam,sprockets, chain and oil pump --- yeah the costs would be close.
Also recommend screw in core plugs or at least "fix" 'em so they can't fall out--particularly new blocks.
"Felpro"(min.) gaskets a must!
Gooda lucka mite [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Peter D · 04-10-06, 08:34 PM

Thanks Chris - I'll get a couple of recommendations & quotes. For some reason, I thought that decent short crate blocks came balanced & ready to go - just a matter of picking the right pistons to suit the heads/valves ?

Kind Regards,

Peter D.

Mike Dozier · 04-10-06, 09:02 PM

Peter

What HP Level do you want? With the right cam and maybe a little porting work, your AFR heads should do 350 hp on a stock 302 shortblock. If you have your heart set on the extra cubic inches, I believe your only choice from Ford
is a 347...which should be fine if you were only looking
to turn 6000 rpm anyway. The Ford 347 includes
a stronger block (Sportsman) and forged pistons/crank.
In the US it sells for around $ 3,000 or

However for about the same $$$ there are several companies
that will build a custom short block to whatever displacement you want...but whether they export I do not know.

Regards

MikeD

Peter D · 04-11-06, 01:18 AM

Hi Mike,

I don't have a set figure in mind for hp - if I decide to stay with the 302, I'll probably re-use the current block & be looking for around the 350hp like you say.

If I decide on a stroker, then I would want around 400hp to make it worthwhile. I have yet to properly research the options of stroking my block or buying a crate short engine.

In the end, it will come down to looking at the marginal extra cost of the best stroker option above a basic 302 rebuild, then rationalising this (never had a problem with that before) !

Finding a good engine builder will be first challenge.

Kind Regards,

Peter D.