Sabre 6210 Build ... finally some progress

Guys,

I've asked all kinds of questions and you kind folks have answered them. The endeavor is finally showing some progress so I thought I'd start posting some results.

6210 came into my life when it was posted for sale as a chassis and body on eBay ... at a price I could afford. It arrived and the front a-arms were not correct but John Donnelly replaced them as part of the sale.

Then I realized that the chassis paint may have been Imron, but the stuff under it was crap and you could scratch the Imron with your thumb nail. So the entire chassis had to be sand blasted and repainted.

Then it became obvious that the bill of materials specified the wrong steering column for the particular chassis. By this time, I had been retired early when my company was acquired by Dow and some 12,000 of us were sent away. No choice ... lack of funding was going to slow things down. The already acquired Flaming River tilt column was going to get used and that meant cutting it and making custom mounts to fit the cut in the frame. This thing turned out to be a major pain, but hard headedness and the availability of a good shop got the thing apart, cut, the 3 piece mount milled from 7075, and a quick release steering wheel mount installed.

Looked a very long time for the transaxle. Found one on eBay, but the description left me worried. Called the owner and found that the box had been built by Patrick Motor Sports. Got the serial number and checked with Patrick who still has the build sheet. So I got a zero hour box with heavy everything and spray bars for less than a used one. Good deal.

A good builder built the engine, but didn't understand what I meant by a short front end. Engine dyno'd with great numbers. Was I just shattered when it arrived and it became obvious that all of the equipment mounts would have to be replaced ... and my funding was again very limited. Finally got to redoing that stuff. Made the front plate, the stiffeners, the ball bearing idlers, idler mounts, pulleys, alternator mount, and the a/c compressor mount.

Still need to but a keyway in one of the pulleys, engine turn the front plate, and do the final assembly. Hope to have that done this long weekend.

Mounting the transaxle on the engine went without a hitch ... beginning to look like something. More later.

Engine_equip.jpg



Engine_transaxle.jpg


We hope to do the first install in the chassis next week. Surely it should be in before the middle of the month. More pics then.

... and Thanks, Guys (especially Lynn), for all the help!
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
Ditto, very nice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

With that "PMS" tranny I'd be careful on it's mood swings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike, is your starter mounted on the tranny side down low? In order to get the motor as low as possible was there any conflict with the chassis and starter? What starter are you using?
 
Tim,

The adapter and flywheel are from Kennedy. They are for a G50/52 using the newer high clamping pressure (3100-3500 lbs) Porsche Turbo Club Clutch pressure plate and disk. The newer pressure plate has the ring gear on the front rather than the back, and is about 11 pounds lighter than the old one.

Kennedy indicates that assembly of parts is good to 525 lb-ft of torque.

They also indicate that while they have not tried it on a Ford engine, the heavy duty (cold weather) Porsche starter fires the Chevy LS1 engine just fine. The LS1 has a CR of 10.5:1. My engine was built to a 9.75:1 CR and takes just under 65 ft-lb of torque to turn over. The Porsche starter will fit into the chassis rather nicely.

So, I figured I'd to the experiment for all of the other folks out there that are not happy with the lack of a Tilton starter for the G50/52.

We'll see what happens. If I have to, I'll build a gear down starter. If I don't need to, we all have a different alternative to ponder.
 
Tim,

I don't know if this will apply to your installation or not, but I was able to rotate my starter motor on it's flange, giving me just enough chassis clearance(Hi-Torque gear reduction starter). It's close, but what isn't on these cars?

Still looking for that sensor part number.........

FOUND IT!!! Porsche part# 911 606 910 01



Bill
 

Tim Kay

Lifetime Supporter
Mike,

I was curious about your starter position because last week I set the motor mounts where my Aviad Oil pan is at the same level as the bottom of the chassis. It was just to the point where my starter was going to hit a lower chassis member. In fact, I had to notch out the starter nose piece where it did come in contact with my chassis upright (one that leads to the upper shock mount).

Bill & Mike,

I was just gonna say that I wasn't sure if a Hi-Torque would fit, but Bill you answered that question. I know they have an adjustable flange but wasn't sure if it would rotate the correct amount. I currently use a local guy here (his name's Guy/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and he re-works the Porsche starters to get a little more "umph" outta them/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm counting on it, I'll be running 10.5:1 CR /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Bill, thanks for the part number. Hope it’s of use to others as well. I was just on the phone with my trans builder and he said (if I understood correctly) there is a difference between the G50\50 & \52. The \50 uses the electronic sender off the side plate and the \52’s used an axle sensor (something to do with “abs”).
 
Mike,
I too am using the Kennedy setup, but for the 930, and Kennedy says the Porsche starter is fine. Did you get the organic clutch setup? They said the non organic hipo setup was prone to chatter on the street as it was pretty much an all or nothing setup, not to mention a strain on your leg from the high clamping presures.

Bill
 
Tim,

The rotation of the flange on a Hi-Torque starter

requires the drilling of new holes in the flange.

There is an extra set of holes, but they didn't work either.

BTW, I bought the starter from Kennedy (in 2002) for $185.


Bill
 

Ron Earp

Admin
Hey Mike,

The engine and tranny look fantastic, I know you are excited. It does look long though, that front dress is not short by any means. Have you measured it up to see if it fits? I assume it will since you made it but it looks tight! Let us know how this gets on!
 
Ron,

It's as short as I can get it with the existing equipment. The water pump is the short "hot rod" pump, and that pulley is actually inset so that the pump flange is inside the pulley rather than behind it.

If the top idlers are too long, they can be made an 1/8" thinner.

There is only an eigth inch behind the a/c compressor and 1/2" behind the alternator.

Given the need to drive an external oil pump, it's as short as it can get. The measurement says it's close. If it's too long ... the firewall gets dimpled! There actually is some room beind the seats for a dimple. I just don't like that alternative.

Am saying nightly prayers. Attempt to load the engine will occur Wednesday or Thursday ... so we'll know then.

Things going OK with you?
 
Hey Mike,
I am a little ways behind you but am very interested in your build as it looks very similar to mine. I have Saber #16 and am hoping to order a 351w from Keith Craft in the next month or two. It will mate to a g50/50 with a plate from kennedy.
If you get a chance, after you motor is in of course, I would like to talk to you and get some info on your shorty motor front end and brackets. Hopefully you can save me some mistakes.

You can reach me at [email protected]
Thanks,
 
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