Converting a GT40 into a Dino 206SP

Hi all

let me first introduce myself:
My name is Axel, I am 51 and I come from Hamburg/North Germany.
I have already built two cars, a Countach with Renault engine/gearbox and an Alpine A110 speedster, based on a racing body with a shortened beetle chassis and a straight four VW engine.
Both cars did look good, and they were great fun to drive, nevertheless I've sold both cars in spring 2012.
Why? Hmmm...the Countach was great, and extremely good looking with fantastic details like the periscope roof, and curved windows...it is just that I did not ride it very often. It was too hot in the summer with the flat windows and no AC, dangerous on cold and wet roads with the 345s in the back, and had a lack of horsepower with the approx 185 horses from the Renault 2.7.
And the Alpine was simply too small for me being over 6ft tall.
I have got a good price for both, then played around with a Porsche 996 convertible for a while, but realized that I do miss the creative process of building my own dream car, and decided to sell the Porsche too...

Now what I am up to:
I have met a polish guy some years ago, and we have kept in touch over the years. He was always dreaming of building his own GT40, and he has made contact to some guys in Poland who are working with fiberglass. They got hold of an old KVA and made some forms with some improvements and they built a frame with suspension based on Ford Granada like the KVA, but also improved a lot.
You can complain about east european engineering, but when I went down for a visit in august, I was surprised how it all turned out. You will not imagine what a messed up place it was in a backyard you will never go when it is dark, but the frame and body turned out to be ok, so I ordered a rolling chassis with bodywork already mounted and a pick up date end of september...
Well, till end of september I haven't heard much from them, and did not get any pictures as promised. After complaining to the polish broker, I finally got some fuzzy pics, and so I decided to go down with a trailer to pick things up a week later in october.
You can imagine what happened, of course they were not finished, and a lot of parts were missing, and overall it was all cobbled together quickly, sprayed with very little primer so it started rusting immediately, and far away from what I have seen at my first visit in august.
Anyway, after a long discussion we reduced the price, I got some extra parts I did not order, we put the stuff on the trailer and was glad to return safe after a 24 houres trip from west to east europe and back...
 

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Re: German GT40 interpretation

At home I started comparing my car with pictures from original GT40s and from other kits, and did find some varieties.
My front was mounted too low, so I had to change that, the windscreen is much smaller and more upright, may be a tribute to a takeover screen from another production car, and the rear end needs a lift up to get a more dynamic look.
I will also- GT-enthusiasts please forgive me- change some things more to my taste, which means the car will be a roadster or speedster with a lot of design changes to it.
It is a replica...not the original thing which is worth a million dollars...and it will be my car, and I love roadsters...so why not doing it...
Here is a 3D-file where you can see what I am going to do. I did not model the body myself, I grabbed it from the internet but did the changes, and modeled my frame into it.
It is a good base to check my intentions, to improve and to get the right proportions. Doing it all in full size at the real car is much more difficult.
Your thoughts are pretty much welcome, this forum is great and many of you are doing outstanding work in a superb quality. I am much more the rough sketch worker, and will never get the mechanical quality of some of you guys, but it will ride, finally.
 

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Darnel A.

Supporter
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Wow! I love it! Yours is the best looking open top GT40 I have ever seen! I think you won't have to worry about the GT40 purist poo pooing on your project!
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Your Countach looks spot on and the Renault appears to have been a blast to drive so I'm sure your GT40 will be a combination of both. Good Luck with your build and post pics. The Targa version you've posted pics of looks very nice indeed. Keep us updated on your progress please.
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

.
I think I got the final design now...
Btw, I cut the roof off yesterday...
didn't even pause to think a minute wether I should do it or not...
so, there is no way back from this moment on!
 

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Re: German GT40 interpretation

Looking good there axel. That's a great looking open top GT40 design there.

Since you're in Germany, how about some german power? I've always thought the Mercedes 5.0 out of a 500 series car would be a great engine. All aluminum, quad cams, four valves, easy 400hp with some basic tuning. Just a thought.

Good luck with the project!
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

You are right Sir, the 5.0 Merc is a great engine, and one of the most desired with stock 326 hp from the 500E.
Too bad it is rare and a refurbished SB 350 or 383 Chevy is easier to find for less money. Another issue is the adapter for Audi or UN1 transmission, they simply don't exist, so you gotta go with an expansive ZF or get an adapter made for the Merc.
I have a spare 350 lying around in my garage might use it, adapter exist for Audi or UN1 which makes it an easy install.

Btw, here is the proof...that I did cut the roof off...!
Anyone interested in a spare roof? ;-)

You guys are not hating me already, are you?

The paneling is done with fiberglass sandwich sheets, light and strong, I will only use aluminium for some visible surfaces.

I really need to tidy up my garage... :-(
 

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Re: German GT40 interpretation

I like Miura -type scoops in sills :)

Thanks and yes, the idea actually came from a Miura.
You might also have noticed the louvers instead of a typcal rear glass window and the openings in the fenders behind the wheels...

Since this car is not going to be the typical GT40, I thought about adding some things and changing a bit, and the 3D is the best way trying how it looks.
 

Chris Kouba

Supporter
Re: German GT40 interpretation

You guys are not hating me already, are you?


Hi Axel,

I have never been a huge fan of the spyder GT's due to the changes made to the windscreen (much more upright). I think your renderings are a gorgeous interpretation of how to do it and make it look "right". I do wonder why you kept the A-pillars though? Why not just use a plexi windscreen (like a T-70)?

Also, regarding this pic:

attachment.php


Please give some thought to mounting the inboard ends of your upper lateral links in double shear.

Best of luck with your project, I look forward to seeing updates.

Chris
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Hi Chris, thanks for your thoughts, I just kept the A-pillar for reference to see where the the windshield ends. It will be all plexiglas for sure.
And many thanks for pointing out the lateral links issue. I was also wondering about the mounting of the upper lateral ends, this is how it come from the polish guys, I will certainly not keep it that way.
I also found many other mistakes, they installed the rear hubs with just two 8mm studs, they did not even drill in the other two holes! Do they wanna kill me...? Worst is I have to take the whole hub apart to get two more holes drilled in, and I will scale the diameter of the studs too.
Overall the frame will get some more tubes to add more triangles, this will add strength but means I have to weld...
At the last pic you can see the steering gear. I am not going with the Escort/Taunus unit, this is a 1984 Renault Alpine A310 unit. I had it in my Countach and was extremely satisfied with it. It is strong and has just 2.5 revs from left stop to right stop. I hope it will match the Taunus suspension layout and will not be too direct.
 

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Re: German GT40 interpretation

Another front suspension issue. If you check the pic and the upper joint fixation to the upper arm, there is no locknut! Is that the way it is or will there be the need of a locknut? They did not install any and I am wondering.
 

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Re: German GT40 interpretation

Hi,

You should consider de plating all this chrome, or at least have it de gased by a specialised company

If not properly done, chrome plating may embrittle the parts by hydrogen difusion into steel. This is not the kind of parts you'd like breaking...
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Hi Axel:

Interesting interpretation. Have you seen the MKII roadster version were the windsheild posts are more vertical? Are you going to make the windshield posts more vertical? I would be afraid of passengers grabbing the pillar exiting the car and cracking the windshield. Looking forward to watching the progress.
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

I also found many other mistakes, they installed the rear hubs with just two 8mm studs, they did not even drill in the other two holes! Do they wanna kill me...? Worst is I have to take the whole hub apart to get two more holes drilled in, and I will scale the diameter of the studs too.

I think You have Scorpio (for 252 mm discs) rear hubs. Bolts are Ford 10 mm with 13 mm head, 10.9 grade and with blue glue. Not nice to have only 50% bolts... Maybe they sold car, very typical, like mock up -condition.
There are two caliber types for that hub, for solid and for ventilated disc. If You want bigger 272 mm discs, buy Cosworth Scorpio hubs. Same but with 10 mm longer lugs. Caliber is same. Caliber lug bolt distance is same as in Wilwoods with narrow mounting lugs. Or AP Racing etc.

At the last pic you can see the steering gear. I am not going with the Escort/Taunus unit, this is a 1984 Renault Alpine A310 unit. I had it in my Countach and was extremely satisfied with it. It is strong and has just 2.5 revs from left stop to right stop. I hope it will match the Taunus suspension layout and will not be too direct.

Escort mk1/2 rwd steering rack is diffirent type, and narrower compared to Taunus/Cortina mk3 unit. However, You can cheaply buy quick rack for Escort, 2,2-2,5 r versions instead of original 3,5 r. Just for sure if You need narrower rack to get geometry right :)
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Hi Axel:

Interesting interpretation. Have you seen the MKII roadster version were the windsheild posts are more vertical? Are you going to make the windshield posts more vertical? I would be afraid of passengers grabbing the pillar exiting the car and cracking the windshield. Looking forward to watching the progress.

No, it will be an all plexiglass windshield supported with aluminium posts inside the cockpit, no typical a-pillar!
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

I think You have Scorpio (for 252 mm discs) rear hubs. Bolts are Ford 10 mm with 13 mm head, 10.9 grade and with blue glue. Not nice to have only 50% bolts... Maybe they sold car, very typical, like mock up -condition.
There are two caliber types for that hub, for solid and for ventilated disc. If You want bigger 272 mm discs, buy Cosworth Scorpio hubs. Same but with 10 mm longer lugs. Caliber is same. Caliber lug bolt distance is same as in Wilwoods with narrow mounting lugs. Or AP Racing etc.

Thanks Jyrki, yes, breaking setup will be a near future issue, any recommendations are very welcome. I have (german) Scorpio I rear hubs and (german) Granada front hubs. I will keep standard solid 250mm discs (probably with one caliper) in the rear, and go with 280mm discs in the front with double calipers. We will see...
 
Re: German GT40 interpretation

Some updates, I welded in two rollbars behind the seats, installed the Porsche 914 seatracks and modified the inner rear suspension sockets for the upper arms. It looks solid now.

I mocked up the car yesterday and took some pics, you can also see some mods done to the rear body, it is shortened and I will modify the wheel arches also.

One think I realized is that the front fenders do have much more curvature compared to the original MKI, I am not sure if I keep it or not, I don't really like this. But lowering the fenders means a lot of hacksawing and fiberglass work...
 

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