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Old 27th December 2014, 01:50 AM   #21
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Randy,

I would recommend the Dremel Multi Max with the round blade to split your cut lines. It can make a very thin surgical cut and I don't think it will chip the Bondo. See the first photo of my post #90 under "Tornado GT40 in Texas". I highly recommend it for all fiberglass work using the round blade, the rectangular blade, or the sanders. I have really used it a lot.

I also noticed that you do not have the latches installed or any rubber spacing between the sill cover and the rear clip. You might want to secure that before you finalize the lines for the air inlets, etc. The Tornado build calls for a 1/4" strip of rubber between the sill and rear clip. I thought that was too large of a gap so I attached a 1/8" fiberglass spacer to the rear clip and used a 3/16" rubber strip. When the latches pull the rear clip down firmly, then I will have a 3/16" gap which I think will look better. I have some extra 3/16" rubber if you want some.

I admire you for going this extra step. I hope I don't get tempted to do the same!

-Bob Woods

Last edited by Bob Woods; 27th December 2014 at 02:18 AM.
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Old 27th December 2014, 04:21 AM   #22
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Really enjoying the thread Randy. Don't kid yourself, you look like a master on the bodywork. I only read the post this evening, but it was inspiring to read the little bit of history and what you were trying to do in farming the work out. To bad that didn't work out, but it looks like you've got the bull by the horns now.
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Old 28th December 2014, 12:42 AM   #23
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Jac -
Thanks for your note.. I have looked at a number of pictures of the originals.. Some are pretty sloppy (like mine) but most are actually well aligned and relatively crisp. Fear not, I won't leave these body lines with sharp edges. They will be radiused as I do my final sanding before I hit it with primer..

Chuck - As always, thanks for your wisdom and pointers...
Getting the rear clip back into position where it actually fit the car properly was something that the last shop somehow did not do, hence the surfaces on the roof will need to be re-filled and leveled. In the process of doing this, I also found what Jason found, the wide hip flairs are nowhere near symmetrical - that error will have to remain as I just don't have the appetite to cut the whole clip back apart again. The difference is 5/8" in the arch size and the bulge behind the tire.. It's just going to have to be fine the way it is now.
I do have all the gaskets in place during this phase. When I first started aligning the doors, I had forgotten them - then realized my error and installed and re-adjusted.

Bob, thanks for the tip on the Dremel tool. I have a Fein Multimaster tool and may try that on the other side.. One thing I know about that tool is that it will cut through fiberglass like a hot knife through butter.
The gap at the "feet" of the clip on this car is maintained by the alignment pin which has an 1/8" shoulder on it. That and another 1/64th inch shoulder on the female socket that the pin engages - leaves me a pretty good gap. I also use a ratchet strap to hold tension on the clip as though the side latches were installed (pics below).



Terry - Thank you for the kind words.. You could say that I am "Driven" at this point. Hopefully I won't loose too much momentum on this when I return back to work next week.
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Old 28th December 2014, 12:43 AM   #24
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 27, 2014
Cutting Loose!

The mud was totally cured this afternoon and I set about trying to figure out where the edge of the door and rear clip were. I wanted to cut right at the edge of the clip and door because I could more easily build up the surfaces of the spider. I should have done a better job in documenting the edges with more than just pictures. I set about using a 24T hacksaw blade wrapped with tape and started carefully sawing by hand. I could hear a difference in the saw’s sound when hitting fiberglass, so I would try to move away from that and back to the deeper sound of just plain Bondo being cut. After about 30 minutes I remembered that I had an old Stanley saw blade holder in my racecar trailer. That really helped a lot. I spent the next hour or so cutting the door and clip loose..



I had a couple of small spots break away, but I can easily fill those in when I build the spider up with Fiberglass impregnated filler (Kitty Hair)

You can see that I do have the door latches in place here. I just did not install the outer door release handles. The tape did its job in damming up the Bondo.


You can see the gasket (bulb seal) was also in place during this fitting exercise. Things will clean up nicely here.


The gasket was also in place under the rear clip – everything came out pretty nicely and I’m happy with the roughed in shape of the contours.

I will be putting more of a radius on the peaks but will go slowly with a 220G paper, then 320G final
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Old 28th December 2014, 12:44 AM   #25
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 27, 2014
Marking my territory on the left side..

After the fiasco of trying to find my edges on the right side, I decided to use my head and leave some bread-crumbs behind to mark the edges I will cut later. I made 2” and 4” marks, drawing lines directly to the edge of the door and clip. There are some places where I will need to feather the filler back beyond the 4” marks but I will do those after I cut the door and clip loose.
Door top


Door edge and clip edge. You can see what a mess that spider is here. The gel-coat crumbled away and left a void where there was an air pocket. Glad it was found now!


Ready to go MUDDIN!






Good grief this looks even worse in the picture than it does in person.


Letting the bondo cure overnight.. I’ll hit it again tomorrow after church..
I am actually enjoying myself out in the shop. Temp in the shop is between 60-65f so I’m comfortable.
Life is good!
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Old 28th December 2014, 10:33 AM   #26
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Randy what brand Bog (Bondo) you using? looks like Rage Gold. is the bog strong for the panel edges?

I have had to do very similar on my RF and am using Rage...
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Old 28th December 2014, 12:13 PM   #27
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Hi Dave... Rage Gold with Blue cream hardener is what I am using.. I find that the Rage filler works well for the first 6 hours or so and then after 24 hours it is about as hard as it's going to get. I don't know if it's because of the amount of hardener I use or not.. Remember - I'm not a bodyman, so others may have different opinions or results..
As to whether it is strong enough - yes, I believe it is. I tend to not want a real thick coat of it and like to build up with Fiberglass impregnated filler where more strength is required.

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Old 28th December 2014, 08:50 PM   #28
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Yes Rage is good stuff.....Im not a body Man either but my new RF body is so crap i will be by the time it's finished....lol...thanks for the detail in your body work posts and keep it coming.
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Old 28th December 2014, 09:36 PM   #29
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Hi Randy, you have great build, as far as mold if you have issues with that like me, may I suggest also painting your tyres with something to kill the mold that grows on them, it gives them a blueish tint after they have been sitting for a while.
I had new tyres stored in my build shed next to the car, and it took months to work out why the nose and eyes ran every time I worked on my build, it turned out it was the mold growing on the tyres, coated them with an anti mould product and no more issues.
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Old 29th December 2014, 01:22 AM   #30
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Thanks Dave - I will share what I can and think is of any value..

Thanks for the tip Graeme... I did take some pictures of the mold on the fiberglass and will post them here in a bit..

Edit -
I hadn't thought about mold on the tires - I will spray them down with Bleach & Water mixture..
Here are a couple pictures that show the mold growing in the edges of the bodywork..




I take mold very seriously as it came close to killing me once and I really don't want to push my luck nor my guardian angel!
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Last edited by Big-Foot; 29th December 2014 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 29th December 2014, 01:23 AM   #31
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 28, 2014 – Sunday
Working the left side and the roof ridge.

The GT40 has a number of styling features which grab your attention to varying degrees. Functional ducting and the styling cues ranging from the Grill/radiator inlet, Twin Nostril (or single) hood panels to the Brake & NACA ducts in the front clip, to the brake / oil cooler ducts and the side air ducts – not to mention the other heat control openings and their associated grills in the rear clip.
Today we had a lot going on with church, friends and family and I only got about an hour out in the shop.
It occurred to me tonight as I write this, that I should take a picture of the tools I am using so you’ll have a point of reference. That will be in tomorrow’s post.

Today I started out with using 36G on a board and block to rip off the high spots in the mud and then worked a bit with 80G on a hard foam 1” cylinder to start working the area around the top of the oil/brake cooler scoop. I got some rough definition there and found some of my low spots which needed another coat of mud.
One area I worked on a bit more which I did not cover in previous posts was the roof ridge (that’s what I am calling it) which has a very complex profile which starts out as the top of the side air intake duct and stretches forward through the spider and door B-Pillar where it all but disappears as it reaches the opening for the window. This ridge on both sides of my car were not well defined and I wanted to bring it back to where I thought it should be. The arrow pointing at the ridge.


Worked the roof a little and got it to the point where I needed to fill in the low spots with more mud, I also filled in more of the exposed door and rear clip gaps.


Here you see a bit of the effort in the side scoop area – not a lot of progress today, but before I left the shop, I hit it with another coat of mud (which you will see in my next post)..


Well that’s it for today. I will tell you that I am a bit apprehensive in my work on the roof. Getting and keeping the right profile here is very important to me and I am just a bit uneasy with this part. Knowing me, I will fiddle with this part of the job for a very long time.
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Old 29th December 2014, 02:25 AM   #32
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

I wish I could offer up some professional suggestions, but instead, perhaps this:

When I did my panel gaps, I used a piece of 1/8" aluminum plate (or sheet) that separated the panels. I considered it a very neat yet appropriate gap size, and the aluminum was stiff enough to maintain the desired shape of the gap (could be left straight, or curved depending on the need), plus, can be easily treated to where the Bondo, and specifically, fiberglass will not stick to it (aged oxidized aluminum doesn't stick to anything well). Anyway, I inserted the aluminum sheeting between the panels and then fiberglassed right up to the aluminum, and then simply "popped" the aluminum off the glasswork once it kicked. Then I closed all the panels up and sanded them as a single piece, but without having to cut any gaps.

The much more durable fiberglass was ideal for panel edging and corners, and even better yet, it served as a "dam" to butt up against any filler Bondo placed behind it (thus acting as a sanding edge to ensure a consistent gap when sanding or finishing the inside jams of the panels.

Not a very good photo, but one of the resulting gaps done this way:
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Old 29th December 2014, 03:55 AM   #33
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Hi Randy.

I like Terry's suggestion of working with a 3 mm plate in the gaps. I'm worried you are going to battle to get an even consistent gap between the panels where you are mudding the joints closed and then re cutting them.

Also concerned that the reworked edges will be susceptible to chipping if the amount of filler you are adding is significant.

Are you using a guide coat when you are flatting back? I post below something I wrote a while ago that contains some tips I learnt on my project.

Useful bodywork products

Those following my project will know I have been doing a lot of filler work. In spite of this I have still not got my skill/confidence to the level you see on those TV programmes where the guy whacks a load of filler on, deftly smoothes it off, and then once it has gone off, easily sands it back to a smooth finish first time.

I tend to not put enough on with the first pass of the scraper, then when you try to add a bit more before it goes off and you reapply the scraper you "pull" the surface and generally make a mess of it. Then when you guide coat it and sand it back, your find a few small areas where the surface is still low, so then you have to add a bit more, etc etc. When sanding these reapplied areas you have to be careful not to push the existing good filler surface back down as you try to blend in the newer bit of filler. Another irritation is that when doing these small repair applications I always seem to mix up too much filer, so the excess is wasted.

Then as the surface comes good you find still more very small flaws, and sometimes areas of porosity when you had air bubbles in the filler. These I have been addressing with premixed "spot putty", which is a pain as takes a long time to go hard enough to sand and it is always going hard in the tin.

Last time I was in the body shop materials supplier, It was recommended that I try "Dolphin Glaze self levelling finishing putty" for these small touch ups. This stuff is fantastic. It comes in a tube, you squeeze out just as much as you need, squeeze a similar length of hardener onto it (the nozzle sizes are calibrated to suit this) mix it up and skim it on. It is the consistency of runny honey, and it does "self level" to an extent. You finish applying, clean the scraper and by the time you turn back to the job it has gone off. It is very easy to sand, and is a bit softer than filler, so it levels out easily.

Another product that was recommended to me is "3M dry wipe guide coat". This is a canister of a black powder than you apply by wiping it over the filler with a (supplied) sponge. You would think than it would just blow/brush off, but it stains the filler and works very well. Advantages over the traditional paint spray from a rattle can is that is much cheaper, can be sanded immediate after application and doe not clog the sandpaper anything like as badly as paint.

Wish I had discovered these products years ago.

Cheers

Fred W B




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Old 29th December 2014, 09:00 AM   #34
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

I can attest to the Dolphin Glaze. Used it on my "Rookie mistake" thread though didn't mention it. It does just as he put it. Guide coat doesn't have to be any special stuff. El Cheapo paint from Walmart works just as well. You just want to identify the low spots. Black just shows up better. Just mist it on and go for it. would suggest that when you have it as flat as you like, and add the primer flat block again. Then with the first coat of color do the same unless you are doing the color and clear in one session. Most paints will tell you how long you have to wait for second or third coats and how long to wait for clear. For good info Go to Eastwood and look at their videos by Kevin Tetz(?) for good paint and prep info. Look for his info on the project "Jaded".

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Old 30th December 2014, 01:21 AM   #35
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the tips...

Terry - I would love to have 1/8" gaps on this car.. On the idea of using something in the gaps.. While I appreciate the advise, I think it may actually make my mission here a little more difficult in a couple of ways.. Please excuse the very rudimentary drawing below. Here I show uneven surfaces between the door, the spider and the rear clip. Note that the spider does not have any sharp edge. These are the surfaces that I want to build up rather than trying to add material to the edge of the door or the edge of the clip. If I did add material to the edges of the door or clip, it would be very weak and probably break off easily. The material added to the spider will have a lot more support.
Then there is sanding the profile of the car which is not flat by any means. It's compound curvatures everywhere. Not being someone who can just look at it and tell if it is a good and even surface like a pro-bodyman may, I have to use my hands, close my eyes and rub my hand over the body gently in the powdery dust "feeling" for high or low spots. Feeling for consistency in the contours. If the line is already cut between the panels, it upsets the movement of my hand and I lose track of the contour..
Maybe I'm nuts, but it's the best way I have found to do this.



I do have some other areas that I need to tend to where your idea should work just fine and I will try it there on the front clip when I get to that..


Fred - I have some glaze compound which should do, but I am certainly open to trying something else if it works better. As you'll see below, I used a bit of spray paint for a guide coat to highlight the low spots. I like the powder idea better and may try to find that during my next trip to the city..
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Old 30th December 2014, 01:22 AM   #36
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 29, 2014
Tool Time

Here are the sanding blocks I am using. I am also using a number of coarse files to help with the shaping of the mud.


This is the hi build primer and glazing putty that will be used in addition to the Rage Gold filler and the Bondo-Hair filler..
Not sure how good this OMNI is going to be as the can had not been sealed properly and it is very thick. I will test it on something inconsequential before I try it on the body.




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Old 30th December 2014, 01:23 AM   #37
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 29, 2014
Working the roof…

OMG – what a mess… I had thought that the roof was finished by the shop. No, it was only roughed in. When I started blocking it to check, I found a number of high spots as well as low spots. I may end up bonding the door tops shut and working them in the same manner as the rear clip and spider interfaces.
With the witness marks I have left behind, I should have less trouble when cutting the doors back open again. I may even get brave and use my Oscillating MultiTool to make the cuts.
You can see where I sprayed a guide coat of flat black paint on the roof to find the low spots. The bad thing about using paint rather than primer is that it almost immediately starts plugging up the sandpaper. I will use spray primer going forward.
















I did make a little progress on the left door..


This is very dusty work – at the end of my day out in the shop all I wanted to do was get a shower.
After finding the other issues in the roof and door tops, I felt like I had made no progress at all.
I’m not beaten down by it though – just glad that I checked and I can fix it all now..
P.S. I am really tempted to break out my D-A Sander at this point, but I am going to continue working this body by hand as long as I can.
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Old 30th December 2014, 05:00 AM   #38
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Hi Randy

My favourite tool for body filler removal over large areas is shown below. As you have learnt, the guide coat paint clogs the paper, the dry wipe black powder emlimates this problem. You can try applying a blast of air from an air nozzle to the paper, it can "flick" the worst of the clogged paint off the paper.



I also made several custom sanding blocks, which I faced with closed cell foam. Some are shown below. The bigger one uses paper clips removed from an ordinary plastic sanding block from a hardware shop


A trick I used when trying to establish if a surface is "true" is to wipe it over with a damp cloth and then sight along it. If you have florescent tubes as lights the reflection of these in the momentarily glossy surface give a good guide.

Last edited by Fred W B; 30th December 2014 at 05:09 AM.
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Old 31st December 2014, 12:00 AM   #39
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

Thanks Fred - really good point on the reflectivity.. I will be using the water when I do the final wet-sand on the roof and will follow that up with glazing putty and the epoxy primer.
BTW - I've made a couple of my own special blocks now in order to get the contours of the scoops..
Since it was -5f here today, I am trying to keep the dust down to a minimum with my shop vac - so no blowing off with the air-hose...

Great tips!
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Old 31st December 2014, 12:00 AM   #40
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re: Mitch Krause's RCR GT40 Build

December 30, 2014
Dust, dust and yes, more dust….


It was a semi-frustrating day today.. I got the roof and door tops where I want them for now. They are sanded with 120 and I will more than likely wet-sand it the rest of the way once I get to that point on the car. For now, there are other battles to fight.
I’ll admit that I broke down today. I got out my pneumatic D-A sander and used it in the left side Oil Cooler recess. I had only one sheet of sandpaper (120) and used the D-A to chew down close to 1/8” of fiberglass on the spider that was protruding too far. Blocking it by hand would have taken a couple of hours. I need to remember to add some fiberglass to the back side of the spider to reinforce it.
This is a before pic of the recess.. The blue you see in the recess at the spider is what needed so much work.


I used my Oscillating MultiTool to cut the doors and rear clip open. It wasn’t pretty, but I will clean up the edges and have the gaps I’m looking for.
Blast --- I only know what the right door looks like open for now. The left door’s Mini-Bear Claw latch is somehow jammed up and will not release. I did not feel like fighting it and will look into it in the morning. I don’t like these latches much and have fought with them before but they’ll have to do for now.
This is the right side door-top gap.


I will use more filler underneath this ledge we just built in order to support it properly..


I did some more work on the roof ridge.. I hit it with some primer just to see how far off I am.. I was a ways off, but the light fools you and it looks worse.. It was still wet when I took this shot.. This ridge will be tough to restore properly as it changes shape and depth from back to front..
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