Rivet Size/Paneling

[ACINVA]

After surviving about 100 cuts and scrapes from the edges of stainless steel, I'm ready to afix some of my chassis panels (thank god for air shears and deburring tools!). I think I'm going to go to the expense and buy some Clecos, but I need to figure out what size rivets to use. Any opinions concerning appearance vs. strength vs. availability/cost would be appreciated! Thanks,
Max Fischer

[Rick Muck- Mark IV]

I an not, thankfully in the process of paneling a '40 chassis. Rremember 'though the rules of dis-similar metals. The half life of a alumiminum rivet installed into mild steel and driven on the salt covered streets of Western New York is....say, about 20 minutes.

Whatever size you decide upon, I would suggest stainless would be worth the cost. However you definetly don't want to do a lot stainless rivets by hand, a power tool will be WAY worth the cost.

Rick [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Max, 5/32" blind end rivets seem to be a good compromise. The kind of rivets that leave the mandrel provide the greatest shear resistance. Definitely should go with steel I would think. And MkIV suggestion of an air powered riveter is a VERY good suggestion. Even with the few I had to do, I would have loved to have one. I think Ron is very glad that he bought one and clecos are a must I would think.

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Lynn Larsen ]

[Ron Earp]

I've done a buttload! But, I also went 1.5" or 2" spacing and double row in many places where it isn't necessary. But, it is my car and I know it is there, so if it wasn't done to what I consider "right" then I would know. The size that Lynn suggests is right and what I used.The rivets with the 3M 5200 will make sure the panels don't move and don't leak.

Unfortunately, even though I have a cheap air puller I did all of mine by hand as I couldn't use the air compressor after 8pm (Sydney was asleep) when I did 90% of my work. I think the firewall has 200 in it alone, so you can imagine the time there.

I've got a good grip now and my left forarm is bigger than the right...

[ October 06, 2002: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

Just a hip shot but I would say 3/16" dia. But diameter is by far not the only consideration.

And all rivets are not created equal. The structural rivet that I originally planned for, a "cherrymax" is about $1.00 each. At about 5,000 rivets.... well, let's say I'm not using this rivet. The ones I'm going to use are about .20 cents a piece, so about $1K. This rivet is 75 percent stronger than your average hardware store "trim" rivet. And like Lynn says the stem breaks flush and leaves the mandrel through the center for added strength.

some rivet web sites with good info, structural and non
http://www.rivetup.com/default.htm
http://www.avdelcherrytextron.com/

It depends what your trying to achieve, just to hold the panel on, or using the panel to add to chassis rigidity. A "structural" spacing pattern (rigidity) is 2" max between 3/16 rivets and 1" between 1/8" . In some cases 2 staggered rows are called for.

If you already have Carroll Smith's "Tune To Win" or "Engineer To Win" both have good chapters on rivets. Or a later Smith book "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing" goes even further.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...65667?v=glance

rivets and spacing were discussed in another thread, just search "rivets"

I am probably going to use the 3M 5200 even though the instructions don't indicate it's for metal. The 4200 is for metal but not as strong.

[Ron Earp]

That 5200 is the stuff. I did some comparisons with Wurth, 3M (other than 5200), and a couple of other brands. That 5200 was by far the hardest to separate once bonded. It is also very evil to get off hands and clothes, it basically doesn't once it starts to skin and cure. It also comes in black (as do others) but with my black chassis and black coated panels it makes for a seemless chassis.

R

[Bill Bayard]

Ron,

3M 5200 is easily cleaned up with WD-40.
3M makes both a fast cure and a slow cure.
The strength is the same, only cure time is different. I have been using 5200 for about 15 years, and have never found anything remotely close in adhesive strength. It is
messy, but surgical gloves and WD-40 make
using it a breeze.

Bill

[Ron Earp]

Damn! I didn't try WD40! I'll give it a go though. I had used gas and MeOH/EtOH but neither had much of an effect. Didn't think of Whistle Dick 40 though [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

R

[Hershal Byrd]

In my opinion the adhesive is not there for a super bond. The wurths is put in between the panels for the prevention of squeaks and chafing. The adhesive should retain a semi soft feel after curing. Enough so that you can dent it with a finger nail. If you don't use a product that does this then over time the adhesive will harden and become brittle. Then I believe it will cause the problem that you were trying to cure in the first place.
I used 1/8" stainless rivets on my stainless panels. I spaced them according to the span they had to cover. In areas where I thought that it needed more rivets then I used less spacing but for the most part my rivets on average are about 2" apart.Panels that provide no structural value I spaced them further apart. You also have to consider the fact that one of these panels may have to come off in the future and you certainly don't want to have to drill out more rivets than you have to. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Hersh [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

http://www.mcmaster.com/

has structural rivets , from the home page

"fastening and sealing" - "rivets" - "standard and high strength blind rivets"

looks like they also have a selection of tools

competitive prices also