Wilwood Front Brakes

[Dave Bilyk]

Rally Design informed me a couple of weeks ago, that they were no longer continuing with their design for the GT40 replica on a 300 disc.

It has been a long time now for us to do a new kit for the GT40 / Granada MK2 and we seem to be coming up against lot of different problems with all the types of wishbones. My boss has decided not to do the kit as the chance of us not having fitment problems is very small.
We are very sorry to have to say we will not be doing this kit.

So I had a rethink over this.
Although they were going to use the Wilwood 6 pot Caliper, I found that the total piston area of the 6 pot was significantly smaller than that of the 4 pot. Taking into account my rear brakes, the 4 pot seems to be more suitable for front to rear balance and pedal pressure.
So, what I have decided to do, is to use the 4 pot radial mount narrow Superlite with 1.75" pistons and on a 310mm disc, which will fit neatly in the wheelrim.

So I have a question: does anyone know of a bracket to mount this caliper on a MkII Granada hub lugs 3" radius, 3.25" spacing?

Regarding the comparison of 6 pot to 4 pot, in the same caliper, the total piston area of a 6 pot is considerably smaller than that available in the 4 pot. Just a point to note that if you want an equivalent 6 pot, the caliper size needs to go up to accommodate the same piston area. Any comments?

 

[Dave Bilyk]

I think I will order the parts and make a caliper bracket to suit, but if anyone has a pre existing design or source for a suitable bracket, that would help.

 

[Ian Anderson]

Dave
I seem to remember Brett Mc Call and Fronk Catt have already invented that wheel

Ian

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Thanks Ian for the compliment, but I have the Wilwood's on the rear of my car. I have some AP 5000 4 pots on the front.

Dave, I'll try and take some pics today and send them to you.

Brett

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Thanks Ian, Brett
sorry for the slow reply, I was away until now. Brett I gues your avatar is a picture of your AP brakes, look awesome. What is the disc diameter? I am restricting mine to 310mm to stay within the 15" Halibrands.

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Dave,
The are 315/28 and the calipers are these here: Brake Calipers, Air Jacks, Brake Discs, Brake Fluid, Brake Kits, Pads, Clutches, Master Cylinders, Pedal Boxes, Slave Cylinders from AP Racing

Sorry, forgot to taker a pick, as I was busy working on the car today, will open the garge up and send you one ASAP.

Brett

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Thanks Brett,
I will look at this option too, but was thinking Wilwood to keep the price down a little. AP would be nice tho! I see some front brake pics in your build thread anyway, but do you have a pic of the caliper mounting bracket area?

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Here you go Dave,
Let me know if you need any more

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Thanks Brett, I'll look into this and decide how I want to play it.

 

[Jono]

I had a feeling granada lugs were same spacing as cortina (could well be wrong, as certainly no expert), and Raldes do a Wilwood SPL4 cortina kit, lug mounted. 310mm disk.

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Thanks Jono,
I'm now designed my own brackets which a local engineering co is making for me.
I dont know whether the Cortina lug spacing is the same as the Granada, but if that is the case, raldes never gave me any alternate suggestions when they dropped their idea to design the GT40 / Granada brackets after months of exchanging emails. Despite that it was still advertised last time I looked.
Rant over, but I appreciate the suggestion.

The material is on order, so I will post some pictures once I get the brackets and put it all together.

Dave

 

[Simon]

Don't hold me to this, but I believe the "princess" type calipers (as fitted to the Austin Princess of all things) is a good and worthwhile four pot upgrade to the standard ford brakes. There are also spacer kits available so they can be fitted to bigger discs.
Simon

 

[Brett James-McCall]

Hey Dave, Look very similar to the rear brackets I ave for my Wilwood handbrake. When I get home later I'll dig out the photos I took.

Brett

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Hi Simon,
yes I think that the Princess caliper is a worthwile upgrade and it does have the same lug pitch I think.
When I looked at the braking system as a whole, I wanted to maintain good front to rear balance and pedal effort because I am not using servos. Now the rear brakes were difficult to fit in the space available, and as a result I needed a 310mm disc to clear the lugs and bolts. I wanted an integral mechanical handbrake, so I chose hispec billet handbrake 4 pots which have 38.6mm pistons. Incidentally, the only off the shelf disc I could get to fit was a Wilwood, hispec could not supply the required diameter / width.
This meant that for good front to rear balance my best choice seemed to be Wilwood 1.75" (44.5mm) 4 pots at the front.
So I hope to get good balance and pedal effort from these choices, and if I do need to tune it I will then change master cylinder bore sizes.

Brett,
I found that the front bracket had to be deeper because the lug radius is smaller 3" compared with 3.5" at the rear. So the standard Wilwood 2" aluminum bar wasnt quite big enough for a one piece bracket, so I ended up getting them made.

Dave

 

[Ian Anderson]

Have a look on my build site
under Dax Build Up
I have Princess calipers on the front and they were straight bolt on to the Granada hub.

I have been told on another forum these also are direct bolt on to Escort and Cortina hubs (But I have not tried)

I now run without boosters and the braking is good

One thing to be aware of is the calipers are really heavy!

Ian

 

[Ian Anderson]

Oh yes they also fit inside the 15 inch rims

There is also another upgrade available that allows a wider bridge for thicker discs

Ian

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Ian,
the Granada calipers are pretty heavy, I considered Jaguar 4 Pots but they are even heavier. Out of interest, I just weighed the parts, Wilwood Superlite about 2150gm, 2 pads 85gm, bracket est 400gm.
Total 2635gm (5.8lb) I was just on my way to get the Granada caliper, but realised that the kitchen scales max at 2200gm, so no chance. Anyone know the weight of a Granada or Princess caliper?

Dave

 

[Brett James-McCall]

I found that the front bracket had to be deeper because the lug radius is smaller 3" compared with 3.5" at the rear. So the standard Wilwood 2" aluminum bar wasnt quite big enough for a one piece bracket, so I ended up getting them made.

Dave,
Same with me. I didn't buy the Wilwod bars, for a start, you can get the material cheaper if you look around I bought some bigger pieces and Brian Magee machined them for me.

Brett

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Brett,
your brackets are very similar, but being for the front, mine look a bit deeper. Overall demensions are 185mmx52mmx37mm, I checked with a local supplier for material 2040-T315 and found prices of £60 for one peice so it isnt cheap. Together with machining and stainless spacers between radial mount and caliper, its loadsamoney.

Cost aside, the brakes are the most important part on the car, so I havent compromised here. But to reduce the impact on the wallet of the total front and rear brake system cost, I took my Impreza off the road, and am currently saving £100 month in fuel -thats dedication to the GT40 for yourockonsmile .

Dave

 

[Dave Bilyk]

Having weighed a Granada Caliper, just for the record

Granada Caliper 4700gm Lug Caliper
Wilwood Superlite 2150gm + bracket 400gm + spacers 48gm = 2598gm

so Granada Caliper is 80% heavier

Wilwood pads 2*425gm = 850gm (not 85gm as previous post)
Granada pads?

Dave