Helper springs

[Alex]

My chassis is very stiff and when taking a steep left-hand turn going uphill (e.g., road-to-uphill-driveway) the front right tire ever-so-slightly lifts off the ground and the suspension is deloaded (i.e., spring flopping around with potential for spring hat to fall off).

Right now my solution has been to screw the spring (hypercoils w/ qa-1 double adjustable shocks) as tight as possible by hand such that, when suspension is deloaded, the spring hat phsyically contacts its mount on the shock shock body (this way there's no chance for the spring hat to fall off the spring when suspension at full droop). But of course this puts my ride height where i don't want it (too high since i've got the spring up tight as much as possible).

Would helper springs be a good solution to my problem? Most references I've seen seem to be with lift kits to keep the spring centered while it's lifting, but i have no idea when actually driving.

Or should i be using a shorter shock? Or something else? i've played around with different spring rates/springs lengths but that doesn't seem to help anything.

 

[Jac Mac]

Yep helper springs will do it, but you also need the correct intermediate platform between original & helper to keep them located correctly and it should be machined so that the platform actually abuts the original upper original spring platform and carries the car weight once the helper spring is compressed ( but not coil bound ). The helper does not alter the spring rate as in any normal situation its not actually carrying weight.

 

[Alex]

Yep, I'm aware of the use of the spring divider.

Given my issue is while driving*, between the two choices of using helper springs or going with a shorter shock and then screwing the coilvoer spring up as much as I can so if the weight is taken off the corner at least the spring hat is locked into position naturally (i'd need a shorter shock to do this as with my current ones my ride height ends up 1/2'' too high) is one a better solution than the other? My concern with helper springs is that since they have no tension basically, and my issue is while driving, is there still a chance the spring hat could shift and fall off and cause catastrophic failure?


*upon further experimentation what I found is I have the issue in only one circumstance. I have to be on flat road, turning left upwards (e.g., up a driveway). This forces the front left of the car down, and the front right of the car goes up, with the wheel off the ground. But what's weird is that if I stop and turn my steering wheel back to center all of a sudden full weight is on the spring (tire on the ground, spring loaded up on coilover). But if I then turn my right tire inwards, the wheel goes off the ground and the spring flops around loosely again. I can't make heads or tails of that.

 

[Jac Mac]

If you go the shorter shock route you need to fit straps or chains to prevent the shock becoming the extension ( no load ) travel limiter. We found that if you allow the shock to be the limiter its possible for the piston to be damaged or pull off the end of the shock shaft, this happened when the inside front tyre was run over undulations or kerbing while unloaded and the unsprung weight acts like a 'shock puller' on the internal parts.
With the helper springs if you fit them so that 25% of the helper spring travel is used up in the 'no load' position you should be fine... they should be fitted at the top or chassis end of the coil over assy, that way they dont add to unsprung weight.

 

[Will Campbell]

I use helper springs on my SLC in the front. I put them on when I saw that the springs weren't seating correctly after being lifted up for alignment.

There's a discussion, with part numbers, on the wiki: Helper springs

 

[Alex]

If you go the shorter shock route you need to fit straps or chains to prevent the shock becoming the extension ( no load ) travel limiter. We found that if you allow the shock to be the limiter its possible for the piston to be damaged or pull off the end of the shock shaft, this happened when the inside front tyre was run over undulations or kerbing while unloaded and the unsprung weight acts like a 'shock puller' on the internal parts.
With the helper springs if you fit them so that 25% of the helper spring travel is used up in the 'no load' position you should be fine... they should be fitted at the top or chassis end of the coil over assy, that way they dont add to unsprung weight.

that's why I'm very hesitant to try a shorter shock - I have no idea wtf I'm messing with in terms of suspension geometry

but on the flip-side I'm concerned w/ helper springs, because my understanding is they have very little tension, that the spring hat can still become unseated because this is happening while the car is moving on the road at speed (albeit a slow speed) and having to deal with normal road situations (e.g., turning uphill on a bumpy road).

I can understand that they'd work if I'm on the ground just jacking the car up, or if I'm slowly going over a speedbump with a lift kit raised, but what about turning a car uphill while moving at 20mph? Since they have virtually no tension would it just take a slight bump from the road to unseat the spring hat? In order to achieve my desired ride-height the helper spring would be about 3/4 of the way screwed in when the suspension is at full droop (4'' helper spring, but I only need it for 1'' in order for the spring hat to be locked into place) , but since my understanding is they provide very little tension, would that be enough to have peace of mind my spring hat will remain seated, or are there situations where the helper spring can shift and the hat can fall off?


the only good news out of all this is that it requires a specific circumstance for my front suspension to unload - turning left uphill (which causes the front left to sink down and the front right to raise up). But this makes it very hard to test if I've got a viable solution or not since I'm not going to sit on my front clip and have my dad drive the car up and down the driveway like that while i stick my hand into the shock area to feel what's happening :/

 

[Ian Anderson]

But this makes it very hard to test if I've got a viable solution or not since I'm not going to sit on my front clip and have my dad drive the car up and down the driveway like that while i stick my hand into the shock area to feel what's happening :/

Try a video camera, go pro, I phone etc under the clip to see what it actually does

Ian

 

[Randy V]

I've seen "Tender" springs as light as 20# and as heavy as 200#... They are very common in the 4x4 world as they frequently unload the suspension at either high speeds or low speeds. The tenders do their job to keep everything seated as they should be.

 

[Jac Mac]

Yes, I just checked a set here, 3" free length & 165 lb when compressed to ~1" with approx 1/2" remaining. therefore at your suggested 1" of remaining travel in your setup these would have no problem keeping everything in place.

 

[Alex]

sounds like helper springs are the way to go then. My biggest concern with them was that at droop a slight shock (e.g., bump) could cause them to come loose, but if 4x4 guys use them then I'm probably good to go.

i've spent the last month banging my head on this problem - i've swapped every part I can side-to-side, made every adjustment i could think of to the control arms (lots of caster, no caster, etc... etc..), changed the ride height from 3'' to 6'' and I keep ending up at the same place - if the car goes into a situation where the front left sinks down but the front right doesn't (e.g., turn off road onto uphill driveway) the tire comes off the ground and my suspension is unloaded temporarily.

 

[Jac Mac]

That may still happen to some degree if you use short travel shocks with stiff rebound settings... its a time factor thing for the unsprung weight to overcome shock resistance... however just having the springs stay in contact with their respective mount pads is all you need to worry about for the type of situation your talking of. If or when you get serious about actual track performance you will find a whole new world of ways to dispose of money to get good results...especially if your going to have to pay someone else!

 

[Alex]

If i can survive a trip down the road and back I'm tickled pink .... track time isn't even on my radar, haha! The guys who race/raced their 917s have balls of steel, that's for sure, total respect on my part.