Considering a kit - what does a powertrain cost?

After spending some time lurking on these forums and browsing through various manufacturer sites, I'm becoming more and more interested in putting together a GT40. My question is, what would a decent engine and tranmission cost me (in the U.S.)? I figure that I'd want to make 300 or so HP, which should be plenty for the weight of the car.

Thanks for any advice,

A.

 

[Steve Toner]

I think this has been discussed before, so try a search for more info (possibly).

I budgeted $10K for my engine (w/Webers) and $7K for a used ZF transaxle. You can pay more if you want to (e.g., a 6-speed ZF is $16K by itself!), but that's kind of at the high end of what you're looking at.

Based on the numbers posted on the CAVGT website, the low end (unless you scrounge from junkyards or something) looks to be about $3600 for a crate motor w/4bbl carb & $2000 for a rebuilt Getrag transaxle, for a total of about $5600.

 

OK, thanks, and my apologies for not searching first of all. I'm seeing advertised 302 crate motors in the range of $1200 - and I guess I was assuming about that much again for a transaxle and carb. I'll search around, though, and try to put together a realistic budget.

 

steves rite,about $3600.00 for motor and $2000.00 for the tranny plus another $1500.00 for carb,manifold headers,gasgets,linkage,hoses ,water pump{short neck},misc. brackets,air cleaner
etc. etc. I think more like $7500.00 to more realistic....

 

I'm seeing a number of 5.0L Ford crate motors with GT-40 in the title (http://www.thefordsource.com/store/motorsports/engines.htm), are these motors better for this type of project? I notice that people seem to spend a great deal of time building engines for their projects, and I'd prefer just to drop something in, connect the wires and tubes, and be done with it. For me, functionality and reliability will come way ahead of authenticity or huge HP.

A

 

[Ron Earp]

You can do this inexpensively.

A Getrag/Audi transaxle can be had for $150-200 in good condition not in need of a rebuild. Bearings and seal kits are $150 for these, so figure $350 for the tranny.

A good late model (94-95) 5.0L motor can be had for $700 (and less) with 40-60k miles. Add a carb ($300), carb intake ($300) and you can have a complete motor for around $1200. This will have a serpentine system that will work with RF and other cars. Rebuild it when you have to, but chances are it'll last a good while.

If on a budget, and you gotta, I know you can get running in the 250 hp range for $2000 as this was my orginal plan.

However, I soon ditched that plan, parted out the $700 motor and built a 342 all forged stroker with Webers thus blowing that budget. I keep the transaxles though and even brought a diesel one in from Germany.

There are lots of ways to do it.

Ron

[ January 08, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

[Guest]

I totted up all my engine bills since 1990 which covers intial purchase of all parts and build, new block and other parts for rebuild and current rebuild. Total was under £7,000! I have always had someone build the engine for me so I think it can be done cheaply and still be competitive.

Holley based engines are cheap and Webber and EFI based engines are expensive! And remember you can't see the webber or EFI stacks when those boys are in your rear view mirror trying to keep up!

Sneaky Pete

 

[Mark Worthington]

To some extent the answer to your question is a function of how much horsepower you want to run. An inexpensive stock, carbeurated 5.0 will make less than 250 hp and will be well suited to a cheap Getrag gearbox out of an old Audi. If you want 500 reliable horsepower from a naturally aspirated short block you are probably looking at more than $10,000 for the engine alone and the Audi gearbox may not last long behind such a mill. Again, if you want a reliable gearbox to handle that kind of power it also could easily run to more than $10,000.

 

[Ron Earp]

Although spliting hairs, I was able to get my stock E7 headed, no port work having, stock cam having, boat anchor to make 231hp to the rear wheels of a 8.8" rear Mustang with a carb and intake. Yes a boat anchor, but more than 250 flywheel hp for sure.

But a good 400+ hp motor is gonna cost some money!

But remember- a Viper is just another Viper, a Lotus V8 (I like these though), is just another Lotus. There are far fewer GT40s than these makes by a long shot. You get something exclusive.

R

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

[Mike Dozier]

$ 35k is possible if you can handle the assembly, use a basic 302/carb motor, used
Getrag, do the body work/prep, and carefully
shop the paint job.

Check Neal's website. There is another person
in the Northwest (Scott) who is building
an Aussie kit on a budget.

MikeD

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

I have begun the search for a motor to build my GT40's motor from...here's what I have found:
In one week I was offered four complete running 5.0 motors, with EFI, all for less than $400 each. This was from making four phone calls. Two of them came with complete cars attached to them- one a rear-end hit, another a rollover, but the motors were healthy. These were from friends in the business who were trying to help me out. So, obviously, finding a running 5.0 motor is not that expensive.
To convert said motor to carbs requires about $500 for manifold, carb etc. I feel strongly you could be in a running 5.0 for less than $2500 including everything needed to get the motor into a GT40. (oil pan etc)
There are a number of posts here about transmissions and adaptors; RF are very helpful and have adaptors I think, also the NZ group make an adaptor to put the Renault box on a 302 Ford.
Whole car for $35,000....weeeeeeeeelllll, what do you guys think? I think that's a little low, but maybe.......

 

[Neal]

The easiest method to save the budget is to buy a complete motor with all the fixings and build it to your standard. I'm building a motor from new pieces. Quality nuts and bolts alone will run $200. Alternator/AC etc... add up. A complete motor will save you quite a bit.


Audi gearbox - $200 + $100 to freshen it up
Adapter/clutch/flywheel - $800


Keep searching, there are some great deals out there...

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Neal ]

 

[Mark Worthington]

I should point out that while there are good deals to be had on used engines, there are also good deals to be had on partially completed kits. I got my kit at a significant discount to the current price of a new RF kit, and I have also seen deals come through this forum on other GT40 replica models. Patience, discipline, and good fabrication skills (or good friends!) will be required to build a quality replica for less than $40,000.

BTW, Ron, sounds like you got a strong engine!

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Worthington ]

 

[Ron Earp]

Could be....or could be a few tricks there...

It isn't as hard as some people like to make it out to be to produce power, at least not in that range. The right parts and selection are needed though.

Those 400+ motors are tricky.

If I can get my stroker with Webers to do as well we'll have something!

R

 

I must be from another planet...I would never think of spending 2 or 3 years building a gt40,your dream car,or purchasing a turn key minus, and sticking 250 hp 76,000 mile 302 with a used tranny in it. What happined to doing it rite he first time?

 

[Ron Earp]

Vic, that is what changed my opinion from my initial impressions. I'm just pointing out it can be done.

But I am also trying to say don't be tricked into paying $2000 for a transmision that is available for $150 and change. The Audi/Getrag/whatever you wish to call them are plenty available in the US in a lot of states of repair.

Ron

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Ron Earp ]

 

[Howard Jones]

I just went thur the motor thing;
SVO 302 crate motor, alum.heads, 345HP $3100
Alum Edelbrock waterpump $150
RPM Performer intake man $180
750 holly double pumper $370
MSA 6Al $200
MSD Blaster SS coil $40
MSD Billet Distributor $200
7 quart canon Road race oil pan $225
oil pump pickup $40
alum valve covers, make your own vent holes, oil fill holes etc. $90
other stuff, fuel lines likage etc. $100

Total $4695

audi gearbox %500
Renaut R21T $3000
Upgrades for r21, LDS Mainshaft, gears $3000
ZF $7000
other >$10000

You still need more stuff, Air con system, alternator, belts, crank dampner, front cover, hoses, airfilter, oilcooler?, remote filter? AN lines? headers( did they come with kit)
I spent $300 changeing mufflers and getting jet hot coated.

prices for motor from JEGS 1`800 345 4545

This will build you a very nice but streetable motor @ about 350-370 HP that you never will spend any more money on. At this power output the powertrain will be reliable.

forgot clutch upgrade from centerforce $250, I sent them the new stock GTD renuaut clutch and they just about doubled its clamping force.

Whoever said 10000 for powertrain allin is just about right. but you can do it for a lot less it depends on what level of build you want.

Remember this project will take years so you will not have to spend all this money at once.
My advice is only buy things once and get it right the first time. This will save you money overall.

Just do it!

 

Yikes. The more research that I do on this project, the scarier it looks. I was hoping to do the whole thing with a realistic budget of $30K-$35K US, but it's looking to me more like $45K-$50K. I really like the car, but that much money gets me (another) Viper, a Lotus V8, a new Vette, or a Superformance Cobra. Maybe it would make sense for the dollar to get strong again and then just buy a turnkey in Australia.

 

But as I understand it, mounting the motor and transaxle should be done first, or nearly so? Can I build the complete car except for the powertrain, then add those last of all? I seem to see some varying opinions on build order, and the NZ kit (which is my top choice right now pending final shakeout of Australian and NZ exchange rates) doesn't have a manual so it's tough to tell.

I like the idea of getting a partially completed kit, but I'd be nervous about getting hosed. Plus, I don't see many good ones advertised.

 

[Ron Earp]

ntmatter,

check the forum, there is a thread on build sequence. You don't need the motor until much later, there are lots of other things to do.

Generally all the kits build about the same in sequence, but each is different in "completeness" level. Depends on how much you want to supply, or not supply.

Ron