32 valve heads

[roaldin]

Hi all,

I am building a race engine and am looking at the Arao (ex Dominion)32 valve heads. Does anybody have any information/opinion good or bad about these heads?
Any first hand experience would be especially appreciated.

I'll also take this opportunity to say hello. I've been lurking for a month or so.

Tim.

 

Tim,

I believe that those heads never were available for sale. A lot of hype, but for some reason never mass produced. Maybe because there are so many good AL heads available that are more cost effective.

There is no limit to what you can do with current heads. For instance: Check this thread

 

[Brian Kissel]

Hello Tim , and welcome aboard !! Use the search function, and look for Arao. Be sure to set it for all forums, and all dates. Read my replies from Feb.03 and Sept. 03. There site still has not been updated as they told me it would be. DO NOT SEND them any deposit money !!!!!!!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
As is recommended in several posts, look at the ones, that are ACTUALLY available. There are several with very impressive flow numbers, and dyno results to back them up.
Best of luck !!!
Brian

 

[roaldin]

Thank's for the replies and the welcome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I have read through the archive and it appears that overall opinion is negative. This is a shame as I'm pretty keen to give such things a go.
My experience so far has been two emails sent, two replies. I have rung once and spoken to Russ Arao.
He says he is willing to send a head here (Australia) for me to have a look at. I pay for shipping. He also promised to send me some better pictures of the heads, valvetrain etc so I guess that'll be a case of wait and see.
Apart from that I can find no direct comment from anybody that's tried them and very little comment from anywhere else except a hot rod magazine from the US that is quoted on Evolutionary products for pushrod engines.

Tim.

 

[Jesse Ragland]

[ QUOTE ]
My experience so far has been two emails sent, two replies. I have rung once and spoken to Russ Arao.
He says he is willing to send a head here (Australia) for me to have a look at. I pay for shipping. He also promised to send me some better pictures of the heads, valvetrain etc so I guess that'll be a case of wait and see.
Apart from that I can find no direct comment from anybody that's tried them and very little comment from anywhere else except a hot rod magazine from the US that is quoted on Evolutionary products for pushrod engines.

Tim.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dear Tim,

Although no comparative data was posted, Arao Engineering posted dyno results at http://www.araoengineering.com/dnochrts/dyno_sheets.htm

The 360 SBC (4.06 x 3.48), using a Performer RPM intake and a 750 Holley had a virtually flat torque curve throughout the plotted data -- from 524 lbs-ft at 3000 rpm, peaking at 553 lbs-ft (at 5000 rpm) and easing to 524 lbs-ft at 6000. Torque dropped to 467 lbs-ft at 7500 rpm -- which is way faster than you want to spin an engine using factory rods and crank, etc. The camshaft was fitted with hydraulic roller tappets, but the lift (presumably at the valve) was only 0.479/0.518 (int/ex) and the claimed duration (possibly at 0.050" valve lift "checking height") was only 226 degrees. Since the compression ratio was not reported, no meaningful direct comparison/contrast can be performed; however, that's a lot of power from such a small camshaft.

We don't know the LC/LS, advance/retard of the cam, etc., etc. All those things are important, but those lift and duration figures are easily streetable even in a roller engine. The use of hydraulic (rather than solid) roller tappets reinforces this perception.

The website refers to the aforementioned engine as "seen below" in a "1968 Chevrolet Camaro SS-396" -- but the engine shown is supercharged and injected. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The picture of the engine associated with the pickup truck looks like it has Holley's "Keith Dorton Signature Series" (or "Track Dominator" or other similar) intake topped by a "Dominator" style carburetor. Holley's #0-80186-1 is a 750-cfm Dominator carb.

One critical consideration in the dynamometer test results is a component known as BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption). In SAE units, this is the pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. A really good printout will show you BSAC (Brake Specific Air Consumption) and the air:fuel ratio as these change across the test.

I was hoping for the same from Coates International, LTD. regarding their CSRV heads, but they are apparently doing industrial engines first. They had a streetable 351W that supposedly made 967 bhp, naturally aspirated on pump gasoline! Granted, "streetable" is a VERY subjective term, but it's almost a thousand horsies without a blower! WOOHOO!

No, the innards of the 351-W/CSRV were not stock. And yes, they did a modified 5.0 Ford (aka "302") that produced similarly insane power.

Email me at [email protected] if you find any of this helpful and wish to discuss it further.

Best wishes!
Jesse (wireflight)

 

[roaldin]

Thank's Jesse,

Arao never did send me the better quality pic's.
I have had a more conventional engine built using AFR heads.
Both the engine builder and I are still interested in the Arao heads and the engine builder has indicated to me that he may build a development engine using them.
If all goes well I may use a 32 valve engine in a future incarnation of my car or perhaps another GT40.

I have also been in contact with Coates (as you may have seen in other posts). I was told the same as you. They're no longer interested in doing motor vehicle engines at least in the short to medium term. They are concentrating on industrial engines.

Thanks again for your help.

Tim.

 

[ QUOTE ]
at 7500 rpm -- which is way faster than you want to spin an engine using factory rods and crank, etc. The camshaft was fitted with hydraulic roller tappets

[/ QUOTE ]

I am very sceptical of those results. I have seen pictures of the rocker arms on an Arao, they are massive shaft mounted forked rockers to open two valves each. It is hard enough to open one valve and a standard rocker at 7,500rpm with a hydraulic roller. I can't see how it would be possible to open two with that big rocker arm and a hydraulic roller.

I think you would need a solid roller to get 7,500 and then you are getting close to the limits of a solid roller lifter, in terms of the spring pressure required and the ammount of mass it is moving.

Also, these heads are available from time to time, you just have to make sure that you buy them from some one that actually has a set. I have heard of Arao selling heads on Ebay, then saying they will be built by xyz date, then they stall forever on delivery.

Be prepared to be disapointed some way, and overcome a few technical obstacles before they ever run.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

It's a tempting idea, but very expensive and are they really out there...I would get a look at them first int he flesh and then see. A good set of aftermarket heads will make serious power, lot less money.

 

[Lee]

I get the feeling that there are a few sets of Chevy heads out there (somewher), but get the feeling that there aren't really any Ford heads about. Could be wrong - just a feeling from everything I've seen. I don't even recall seeing a photo of a Ford head, only the Chevys.

 

There was an Ebay auction for a set of heads with a BXR intake a couple of weeks ago. It's an intriguing combination, but it would be an engineering nightmare.

That is where I saw the rocker arms.

So, they do exist, but in very small numbers, and some people have been scammed.

This is certainly a good reason to use an escrow company for the purchase.

 

[John]

Hey Tim,

I've been looking at these heads for a few years. I can't afford them, but I can dream right! Anyway, I've dug around a little trying to find info and have never found anyone actually running the heads. If you do end up getting them, do report back on how they work out. I'd love to know.

John
www.geocities.com/boodlefoof

 

[roaldin]

I didn't pursue this any further. I am curious though, does anybody now have any further information to add on these?

Tim.

 

[Ron Earp]

If you go to www.corral.net and some other Ford/Mustang sites and search on them you'll find that nobody has received a set. And, the few that did had big problems with them. I think it a great idea and really neat, but experience with them has seemingly been poor. Anyone know about those Coates rotary valve heads, new info there?

R

 

[Howard Jones]

$5200 for a set of heads? Your kidding right? I can build a 450hp SBF for that.

And those Hp figures crack me up. Look The most advanced pushrod V8 running a 4 barrel carb is the current NASCAR road race spec motor. 350 inchs unlimited cam, head, intake, exaust, selection on race gas and they make right at 775-800 HP. Now given what those engine builders will do for 5 more hp and you can see why when people talk about 1000 hp street motors I just crack up. Come on I know this is the web but get real.

 

[Kevin]

Thank's Jesse,

Arao never did send me the better quality pic's.
I have had a more conventional engine built using AFR heads.
Both the engine builder and I are still interested in the Arao heads and the engine builder has indicated to me that he may build a development engine using them.
If all goes well I may use a 32 valve engine in a future incarnation of my car or perhaps another GT40.

I have also been in contact with Coates (as you may have seen in other posts). I was told the same as you. They're no longer interested in doing motor vehicle engines at least in the short to medium term. They are concentrating on industrial engines.

Thanks again for your help.

Tim.

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Hi Guys I cannot bite my tongue no longer..............On Saturday, January 21, 2006 6:26 PM I Kevin Gall made contact via email with a company located in California U.S.A. As you know the company is ARAO Engineering Inc. the owner is Russell ARAO . In my contact email to ARAO i enquired about a special order set of FORD Aluminum racing cylinder heads - a product ARAO advertises & manufactures. After receiving a reply and several emails i decided to place an order with ARAO The product is special order Automotive cylinder heads to suit a Ford V8 for racing use at a fax quoted cost of USD $11,000.00 manufacturing leadtime ARAO states on paper 90days for special orders.

On 31st January 2006 payment via Int'l Bank Wire of USD $5,500.00 & 6th February 2006 USD $5,500.00 was completed in FULL to ARAO Engineering Inc. Bank account. After several more emails to finalize details and special requests i was informed by ARAO were engaged and going. After some waiting i emailed ARAO on Friday, June 02, 2006 12:39 AM to ask if everything was on track, i received a response back from ARAO that everything was fine and on track.

Again after more waiting On Friday, September 15, 2006 03:05:42 i asked via email a good friend of mine that owns a reputable drag racing supplies shop located in Whittier, CA U.S.A. to contact ARAO by telephone. He spoke with Russell ARAO and he stated to he was waiting on parts from an outside supplier - hence the delay. In months to come i have made ALOT of repeated attempts in writing, faxes, calls, emails to receive a date for finalizing and completion of my special order. I still have not received a date at which my order will be finished.

As of today Sunday, Jan 17th, 2008 nearly two(2) years later i have not received my order from ARAO Engineering Inc, only BU**SHT PROMISES AND ABSOLUTE LIES. The only thing i have received is pictures of my heads un-finished. I believe i have been patient and understanding and more than reasonable considering that ARAO has not delivered as promised 90days to manufacture.

From my personal dealings I heavily caution anybody wishing to part with their money to purchase from a disreputable company like ARAO Engineering Inc. If you have any questions/comments please email anytime! ....Arao Engineering has been reported by myself to the L.A Better Business Bureau & also C.A dept of Justice ,The office of the Attorney General C.A., Recently today 17th Jan 2008 also reported to Federal Trade Commision - Offices & Bereaus. **It is noted Russ Arao Failed to respond to any complaint(s).