Traction Control in an MSD

[Ron Earp]

Here is one of the cool traction control devices hidden in an MSD box to pass tech. Someone mentioned it here weeks ago but here is one for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...&category=6737 Tractoin Control on Ebay

A fine example of what racing does for technology, sport, and advancement. The Darwin concept bought up in the other thread definitely applies - if it really works folks in racing are using it or invented it.

[Brian Kissel]

At the PRI show in Indy, a week ago MSD had on display a tester that would shut down the engine once it detected a installed traction device. I was on my way to a seminar that Gale Banks was putting on about turbocharging, and forgot to go back and check it out. It appears it is inexpensive from what little of the conversations I overheard so that any little sanctioning body would have them available. I think it is a great idea on a steet unit.

Brian

[Gary Gibbs]

This may be the box I heard from Jim Yates that another NHRA Pro Stock team (that I won't mention) was using ilegally . It apparantly helped that team significantly at the end of the 2002 season and was subsequently discovered.

[Ron Earp]

You know, that thing should not cost so damn much.

Seems it be easy to make with no sensors attached to the car. We'd sample the RPM vs. time with an A/D and embedded processor. Taking the first derivative of that would be easy to do and give us the rate of change. Then we could monitor the rate of change for any drastic deviations as would happen with tire spin. One could retard timing or drop cylinders when spin was detected. I'm sure we could come up with other algorithms for detecting spin too if we wanted to place an accelometer in the box.

[Gary Gibbs]

The way it was described to me by Jim Yates was that in each gear you program in the maximum rate of change of RPM (e.g. 100 RPM/sec). When you think about it on a fixed surface there is a maximum accel (and thus rate of change) based on weight HP, etc. You play with the factors in each gear and you have it. The box just retards timing and alternatingly cuts cyl firing to limit the rate of change to the specified value. It does not seem to difficult to me.

[Ron Earp]

That would be the same, the derivative would give the rate of change with respect to RPM and acceleration. It'd be pretty simple to rig an op amp to do this if analog and even easier if an A/D were used. Maybe we should make such a thing, I'm sure it can be done for less than what these things are auctioning for. We can easily count gears by watching the RPM drop off, moniotr speed with RPM since we know tire size etc. Definitely doable. Is there a big market for this? Doesn't seem like it, but if traction control can be had for $500 with the ignition box it seems like a larger market. Surely MSD will do this, yes?

[Bart Carter]

[ QUOTE ]
...the derivative would give the rate of change with respect to RPM and acceleration. It'd be pretty simple to rig an op amp to do this if analog and even easier if an A/D were used. Maybe we should make such a thing, I'm sure it can be done for less than what these things are auctioning for. We can easily count gears by watching the RPM drop off, moniotr speed with RPM since we know tire size etc. Definitely doable....Surely MSD will do this, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be good for straight line acceleration at the drags. But not for accelerating out of corners. The traction loss for cornering force is not accounted for. That is why the MSD unit is good for the drags, not road racing.

You would need something like Race Logic provides.

[Ron Earp]

I think they use them for roundy round racing, so, it must have some sort of laterial accelometer built in to to try and cope with laterial forces. Still not as good as the one you posted.

[Gary Gibbs]

think the main selling point of there system was simplicity and the fact that fairly careful NHRA judges missed the system for quite a while as it just looks like an MSD 6AL box.