Alcohol Injection

[pavilionn5425]

I am planning on building a 1965 mkI gt40, with a 427 cu. in. ford engine. I am a gm guy and it's hard to make the transition for myself..
anyway..
I want to run alcohol injection like I use with a 410 cu. in. chevy moters used in sprint cars.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
My question is has anyone in this forum tried to inject alcohol in a ford moter without any problums, and if so what type of setup did you try??
thanks guys

[Ron Earp]

Well......

There plently of Fords on R-OH.

But, given the fact that transaxles are the weak link in any mid-engine car and you can make more power than any transaxle can handle on gas, the question would be why? These aren't NHRA cars you know and never will be good at that, lord knows if anyone is prone to drag racing one for ill effect I'm the man.

[pavilionn5425]

It's not the fact that I want to drag race the car. Even though I would be tempted to at least blow one transaxle. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Hey I just want to be different.. I have allways wanted to make an alcohol engine for street use, just for the fact that I can get the fuel just that much cheeper than unleaded. As well as the fact that every young kid like myself has a riceburner with turbo's and everything else.........
I just want to prove I know my stuff, for street cars..

[Ron Earp]

[ QUOTE ]
e an alcohol engine for street use, just for the fact that I can get the fuel just that much cheeper than unleaded. As well as the fact that every young kid like myself has a...I just want to prove I know my stuff, for street cars..

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good you have a cheap source. You'll need a lot of it - a gallon of alcohol doesn't have nearly the latent energy of a gallon of gasoline so the consumption rate will be high. In fact, if memory serves me you'll be using roughly twice as much for the same amount of power.

However, since R-OH fuels still provide additional power when jetted much richer than their equilvalent gas motors you'll probably use even more for more power.

[pavilionn5425]

Your right about the fuel consumption, because of the fact that the alcohol molecules are twice as large as a normal unleaded fuel molecule.
Yet, it does produce more horse power mainly because of its cooling effect on the engine.
I'm 18, and I've built a few engines for racing. However because of my age, I have to try everything once.. or at least think about it..
thanks for the help

[Ron Earp]

Alcohol molecules are not twice as big as a "fuel molecule".

Gasoline is a mixture of long chain hydrocarbons of various lengths, typically n=7 to about 12, where n is equal to the number of carbon atoms in the chain. So, the molecule has the form of:

C(n)H((n*2)+2)

In general, the more bonds to break the more energy the molecule has. Diesel fuel is a mixure of some of these and a lot of longer ones in the n=12 to around 15 range if I remember right. Of course, this goes to reason as a gallon of diesel fuel has a lot of energy. Generally oils are in the n=15-18 range and above n=20 they're all solids, as you'll find in waxes and parafins.

Alcohols, R-OH, are small molecules. Ethanol, which has many fantastic uses, is only a C(2)H(5)-OH. Methanol, C(3)-OH. Small molecules that don't have much energy, relatively speaking. But, its burn characteristics lend itself to high compression uses. There are a number of automotive engineers on the forum that can help you out with more of this, I'm simply a chemist as you can probably tell.

[pavilionn5425]

I guess I was told wrong..
Thanks for the correction.. I am going to school for chemistry. But haven't gotten into organic chem yet. So thanks for the heads up.

[pavilionn5425]

According to http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...earth/me1.html
alcohol injection is only 12% less in fuel economy because of the fact that it makes up in power efficency.

[Ron Earp]

I'd be careful with that source, it has errors and isn't exactly from a netural stance - they've got an agenda.

[Bill Musarra]

Back in the 80's i visited The Mother Earth News Farm when it was near Hendersonville N.C.. It was a unique experience. They are not a back to nature group but rather a back to independance and self sufficiency group. They had classes in every thing from building Rammed Earth homes (anyone remember the one and only home that survived the Los Angeles hills fire) to elctricity generation from windmills and water wheels to log homes that could be built in the wilderness using fire wood. They had a tram that was fueled by coal gas that took you from venue to venue. They have plans for many many projects and most were easily built by non mechanicly inclined individuals. They even have plans for the construction of a car that gets atleast 100 miles per gallon of gas. (battery driven with a lawnmower engine driven alternator) Very insiteful group of indivduals. I built several solar projects of thiers and a waste oil recycler back in the days of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for lunch. I think they are now located in the New York State area. They use to have a monthy or quarterly magazine. Maybe they still do??
Bill

[Howard Jones]

I sprint car guy I know runs a SB Ford on alcohol. He has told me in the past that his motor makes more than 600hp. The next time I'm over there I hit him up for more info about alcohol motors. How about as a school age project convert a really cheap 4 banger, old pinto or something with a carb, to alcohol and drive it for a few years as a learning project.

You will be way ahead on information when you start your 40 and have cheap transportation while in school. I built my 40 so I could have something to think about, I have a good job but it doesn't require much new techincal thinking anymore after 30 years doing the same thing. By the way there's a message here for a young man.

Follow your dreams just do the homework first. Oh and have fun!

[pavilionn5425]

My father runs a chevy 410 cu. in engine and it runs of 900hp. and a little more in torque
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