Box full of nothing

Patrick595 · 06-06-04, 01:46 PM

Well after spending all week polishing the car ready for Tatton Park Show where I was hoping for a trophy of some sort the day arrived. The wife was taking the TR8 and I was taking the GT40. I had strict instructions from the wife not to go racing off and leave her...well 5 miles out from home and as I had just changed into 5th gear at about 45 mph the engine revved and no drive.

I tried all the other gears but non worked. Wife went on to Tatton while I waited for the RAC to get me home.

Any ideas from this learned list ? My hunch is centre out of the clutch. I can hear the gears going in, linkage is ok, clutch pressur on the pedal is ok.

Either way I think the gearbox will have to come out.

Any easy way or any dos or dont's when taking the Renault box out of a GTD with 302 fitted?

Where am I likely to be able to get a clutch centre plate of the shelf in the UK?

Does anyone in the vicinity of Crewe in Cheshre want to practice their spanner skills with me and give me a hand ?

Looking forward to the replies and advice.

regards
Patrick

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 06-06-04, 04:26 PM

Oop's - [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

My guess is a quill shaft breakage - the extension piece on the front of the renault box that passes through the clutch and into the spigot bearing.

Where the shaft necks down is a common failure point.

If it is the clutch, they are available over here - I'm sure Frank Catt or Mark Sibley could help.

Re Engine/Transmission removal as a unit, use an engine crane, sling to balance (norm front of heads to drive couplings) and MIND YOUR BULKHEAD GLASS!! - EASILY BROKEN!!

Let us know what you find...

best regards

40 Bud · 06-06-04, 07:34 PM

If the engine is going to be out for very long,I recommend putting the rear cross members back in - keeps the shock towers from taking an inward set.

Dave Bilyk · 06-07-04, 08:03 AM

Patrick, sorry to hear this. If it turns out to be the gearbox, I seem to remember some threads about replacement internals which are stronger with longer 1st and 2nd gear ratios. If yours is a standard box, it might be worthwhile to upgrade it if these parts are still available. Can anyone enlighten us?

regards
Dave

Brett James-McCall · 06-07-04, 09:41 AM

Dave,
I think you are talking about the Derek Bell/Quaife upgrade? Someone mentioned to me that this was no longer available. Anyone know if this is true?

Brett

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 06-08-04, 08:18 AM

I beleive the Derek Bell / Quaife conversion for the UN1 Renault is still available but is made to order in min batch quantities.

Try contacting Mark Sibley as I believe he is handling orders/supply of these items as Derek is generally busy with other matters.

There have been some delays in production of these conversions but remember, when someone approaches Quaife and orders say 5 sets of bits and then Ford announce they are using Quiafe ATBs in say the RS Focus, which job do think gets preference? (and rightly so if you are an accountant!).

As a conversion it is DEFINATELY worth waiting for with the following users that I know of:
Roy Smart (GTD) / Dave Parker (R42) / Malcolm MacAdam (GTD) / Andrew Fordyce (GTD) / James Philips (MDA)...

Bomb Proof thus far and believe me, If Dave's Chevy Powered R42 doesn't break it on slicks - nothing will! (I hope).
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

regards

Patrick595 · 06-09-04, 07:10 PM

Well the box is out and now down at the G/box Gurus. The diagnosis was in fact the quill shaft... well done that man. Thank you Frank for the info on g/box removal, we got it out in 2.5 hrs as opposed to the sub 1 hr your guys manage. It IS the g/box with uprated 1st and 2nd gears I was told by the Guru who in fact recognised the box in question. The only downside is that he is so busy he can't repair mine for 2 weeks but after chatting to him at some length I know that it will come back as good as new.

Once again this list is proving invaluale for information.

One more question please......... the silver bullet racing type mirrors are totally useless........ any idea for a dorr/window mounted mirror for both sides ?
regards
Patrick

JOSEPH · 06-10-04, 12:15 AM

A lot of us are using '85 to '87 Mazda RX-7 electric mirrors. They look great and are period correct and work very well. In this picture they look like they are drooping, but they really are not. You need to sand the plate that goes against the door to make the top of the mirrors be paralell to the pavement. This is the position I installed them. They are available in most braker yards. I also used the control switch from the Mazda. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JOSEPH · 06-10-04, 12:20 AM

Side view

JOSEPH · 06-10-04, 12:28 AM

Control switch at 8 o'clock just outside of the steering wheel.

Simon · 06-10-04, 03:43 AM

I've tried everywhere for these mirrors in the UK, but just can't find them.
Simon

Brett James-McCall · 06-10-04, 04:55 AM

Simon,
JImmy's mazda say they may be getting some in soon, if not I'm sure someone in the US could find a set??

Brett

Mike Dozier · 06-10-04, 12:45 PM

They come up on E-bay regularly. If that doesn't help there
are several Mazda specialty breakers on the web.

Joseph...anyone got a wiring diagram? I got the mirrors
and switch, but nothing in between.

MikeD

JP · 06-10-04, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It IS the g/box with uprated 1st and 2nd gears I was told by the Guru who in fact recognised the box in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your box being repaired by Chris of Mach 1 transmissions?

I doubt that a Quaife shaft would have snapped!! If it has then you have a problem, you will need another Quaife shaft. That means buying a whole new kit because I doubt very much anyone will sell just a shaft.
That's at least £1800.

So far no one has bust one of these shafts. Roy Smart and Dave Parker probably have the best chance of doing so with at least 400ft/lb torque and really sticky slicks.

If you have got a Derek Bell Quaife shaft and you've bust it! Well done.

Keep us informed mind.

Regards,

J.P

JOSEPH · 06-11-04, 12:50 AM

Mike DD and all others, My neighbor down the street, ( gray Porsche in photo with over 660 hp ) is an electronic Geek and sat down and played with it while watching TV and figured it out. The next day he installed it ( hard wired ) and after it was sauldered and plugged in with a 3 amp inline fuse in about 2 hours it worked the first time and I am sorry that I can't help with the wireing. I do know that he made it much more simple than the wireing diagram that we could not get to work. Good luck. Joe [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 06-13-04, 07:27 PM

As James states - the Derek Bell conversion is 'unbroken' as far as we are aware. The Quill I suggested had broken in my earlier post is the short extension shaft, that extends the splined stub that protrudes into the bellhousing on the standard Renault unit.

If you have broken a 'DB/Quaife' set please let us know more - When Daves R42 had a standard diff failure (Pre ATB) at Wiscombe a couple of years ago (2001) - a pin supporting one of the planet gears broke, exited the diff centre and tried to pass between the main crown and pinion. This all happened at about 70Mph+ whilst hard on the gas, travelling up through 'The Esses' and with wide slicks on, the resulting BANG burst the gearbox casing dumping a slick for about 50yards up the hill (very popular as I was next up!). On inspection, all DB parts remained undamaged despite shock load. See pic below.

Also - (James) just noticed we have both made 427 posts - now theres an interesting number to stick in the back of Roy's monocoque MkII for 2005.... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Malcolm · 06-15-04, 06:22 AM

Just to add to Paul's post above, the DB shaft is a one peice shaft whereas the standard Renault item is two shafts joined by a sleeve. Only on one occaision that I am aware of has anyone tried to weld the two renault shafts together and that ended in failure!