Fuel Pumps
- Thread starter LET
- Start date
Thanks for the info Ken, by the way that noise you heard was one of my clangers hitting the floor. I've just purchased a Holley[red] and after reading the spec.sheet I was somewhat dismayed to learn it has to be gravity fed. I've just received confirmation from Holley stateside that the particular pump I have is designed only to push and not pull, suppose I'll chalk this one up to experience[lack of]and get back on ebay...Holley fuel pump anyone, new, unused.!
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
Lorry,
Kirkham has been using the Holley Red Top for years in a "pull" situation with no bad side effects. I would use it.
Kirkham has been using the Holley Red Top for years in a "pull" situation with no bad side effects. I would use it.
Pat Buckley
GT40s Supporter
They are manufacturers of aluminum bodied Cobras in the USA.
Their fuel pumps, until recently, were mounted in the trunk as the originals were, above the fuel tank. The fuel was drawn from the tank, up to the pump, and then forward to the engine.
Recently they moved the fuel pump to a location that was both outside the trunk and lower on the chassis due to "safety concerns".
I have the pump mounted n the trunk on my Kirkham and it has worked well there. I do not use a mechanical pump.
Their fuel pumps, until recently, were mounted in the trunk as the originals were, above the fuel tank. The fuel was drawn from the tank, up to the pump, and then forward to the engine.
Recently they moved the fuel pump to a location that was both outside the trunk and lower on the chassis due to "safety concerns".
I have the pump mounted n the trunk on my Kirkham and it has worked well there. I do not use a mechanical pump.
Jim Rosenthal
Supporter
What is the difference between Facet red and blue top pumps? Will the red top pump supply enough fuel for a 302 being driven briskly?
Technically, the performance of the red and blue top Facets appear the same, but my best guess is that the red top was renamed 'blue top' when the contact points were replaced with solid state elements. Certainly, the newer facets make a different noise, less clicking, more whirring. I run on one red (blue) top on the road and switch both pumps on for track use. I liked the click of the old ones, you could here the fuel flow and knew when it's pumping air. Although the Facets will suck, my pumps are as low as they will go to prevent vapour locking from being a problem. Oh, and the Blue tops cost $10 more...
Tony.
KVA with 2004 FORD MotorSport 5.0 litre SVO 'GT40' XB3 engine,350bhp, 670 cfm Holley 'Street Avenger' carburettor.
Tony.
KVA with 2004 FORD MotorSport 5.0 litre SVO 'GT40' XB3 engine,350bhp, 670 cfm Holley 'Street Avenger' carburettor.
Presumably when you are running without injection ,there is only one pump in use at any given time (one per tank) so I'm guessing that if I connect both tanks together and 'T' off in the middle one pump is sufficient for track work. Or is there a way of having both pumps on @ the same time ? I just wan't both tanks to empty @ the same time rather than one or the other.
Interesting series of posts. How are you fellas doing the fuel plumbing for carborated engines?
One pump per tank? One used on the street both used on the track. What fuel volume do the Facet pumps provide?
How are you joining the streams?
Do you use any kind of a return system?
Does anyone ever see one tank being pumped into the other?
Sure appreciate the help!
One pump per tank? One used on the street both used on the track. What fuel volume do the Facet pumps provide?
How are you joining the streams?
Do you use any kind of a return system?
Does anyone ever see one tank being pumped into the other?
Sure appreciate the help!
Personally, I think it is important not only to run a decent fuel pump (I run a gravity fed Holley pusher myself) through a pressure regulator, but for track use, a fuel pressure gauge is also a vital tool for monitoring constant flow. It can help eliminate many nagging problems. If you're seeing 5-7 psi at the gauge (for up to 750cfm DP Holley) - then you're fine. Any fuel starvation in the turns through poor tank design or pickup or even running low will instantly show up on the gauge. For injection, of course, it's a different ball game. Just don't fit a mechanical fuel gauge in the cockpit though! I use Autometer gauge. Very clear and accurate. That's my 2 pennies. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Attachments
Mike,
For most carburated setups, you should "normally" need only one pump.I'm going to use F.I. Most are using dual pumps and tubing with awitch over setups, but I get lost in all the switchover stuff(not to mention the cost), so I am considering linking the two tanks like Lotus does, put a one way valve between them toward one of the tanks that will have a low pressure pump to the swirl pot. From the pot to one high pressure pump to the fuel rails. A regulator, then return line to the swirl pot, and an overflow to the unpumped tank. It may not sound simple but it should work. It keeps the fuel moving in one direction, keeps the fuel flowing to the high pressure pump, and it does away with all that duplication in plumbing, pumps,electronics and switches.
Bill
For most carburated setups, you should "normally" need only one pump.I'm going to use F.I. Most are using dual pumps and tubing with awitch over setups, but I get lost in all the switchover stuff(not to mention the cost), so I am considering linking the two tanks like Lotus does, put a one way valve between them toward one of the tanks that will have a low pressure pump to the swirl pot. From the pot to one high pressure pump to the fuel rails. A regulator, then return line to the swirl pot, and an overflow to the unpumped tank. It may not sound simple but it should work. It keeps the fuel moving in one direction, keeps the fuel flowing to the high pressure pump, and it does away with all that duplication in plumbing, pumps,electronics and switches.
Bill
Bill
I'm with you. Dual pumps are overkill for the street...
strictly an image thing. I'm plumbing both tanks into
the suction side of a single pump, then through a filter
to the carb. I don't need a regulator or return lines
since the pump is internally regulated to 6 psi.
KISS PRINCIPLE !
I did wimp out and install seperate fuel gage sendors
in each tank so I can make sure they're drawing down evenly.
I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't...time will tell.
MikeD
I'm with you. Dual pumps are overkill for the street...
strictly an image thing. I'm plumbing both tanks into
the suction side of a single pump, then through a filter
to the carb. I don't need a regulator or return lines
since the pump is internally regulated to 6 psi.
KISS PRINCIPLE !
I did wimp out and install seperate fuel gage sendors
in each tank so I can make sure they're drawing down evenly.
I can't think of any reason why they shouldn't...time will tell.
MikeD
Mike,
The only problem with this setup is that when either of the two tanks is empty you are out of gas. Even though one of the tanks is half full the pump will pull air from the empty tank. One idea is to put a shutoff valve in between the tank and the tee going to the pump. That way you can shut off either of the tanks.
The only problem with this setup is that when either of the two tanks is empty you are out of gas. Even though one of the tanks is half full the pump will pull air from the empty tank. One idea is to put a shutoff valve in between the tank and the tee going to the pump. That way you can shut off either of the tanks.
Richard
That sounds like cheap insurance...thanks for the tip.
MikeD
That sounds like cheap insurance...thanks for the tip.
MikeD
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Faili,
I run two Facet (one from each tank). I replaced them both recently because one just "up'n die" on me without a warning /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I did read the installation recommendation and they said to mount them in a vertical position, mine are laid down horizontally. So maybe the life expectancy is reduced if not mounted correctly.
I haven't really seen any lack of volume on mine. I set at about 2.5 lbs.
BTW, 48 IDF's
Probably didn't help much but that's my experience so far. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I run two Facet (one from each tank). I replaced them both recently because one just "up'n die" on me without a warning /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I did read the installation recommendation and they said to mount them in a vertical position, mine are laid down horizontally. So maybe the life expectancy is reduced if not mounted correctly.
I haven't really seen any lack of volume on mine. I set at about 2.5 lbs.
BTW, 48 IDF's
Probably didn't help much but that's my experience so far. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Hey Tim, I have the same set up as yours. as long as i am around 2.5 PSI I am Ok (no flooding of the carbs).
My issue though is with the Volume. These pumps (I think) just don't put out enough GPH. I think something around 30 or so when it should be 50-60 GPH. My engine (under load) hesitates some time between 3500 -4000 RPM!! I was curious to hear what everyone uses.
My issue though is with the Volume. These pumps (I think) just don't put out enough GPH. I think something around 30 or so when it should be 50-60 GPH. My engine (under load) hesitates some time between 3500 -4000 RPM!! I was curious to hear what everyone uses.
Tim Kay
Lifetime Supporter
Faili,
Would it not stand to reason that if your volume isn't sufficient at 3500-4000 then it would continue to lack thereon up the rpm range, with you foot on the loud pedal?
Alternatively, it may be a combination of air correctors and main jets? Another possibilty may be float level.
I believe you have a 347, no? What is your venturi size, air corrector and mains at right now?
Would it not stand to reason that if your volume isn't sufficient at 3500-4000 then it would continue to lack thereon up the rpm range, with you foot on the loud pedal?
Alternatively, it may be a combination of air correctors and main jets? Another possibilty may be float level.
I believe you have a 347, no? What is your venturi size, air corrector and mains at right now?
Facet pumps are a copy of (or made under license ???)Bendix pumps. The red and blue tops in Bendix were for differing pressure and flow. Personally I am not a fan of facet pumps. You might try a Walbro pump which is an electrically operated diaphragm pump. It is also repairable. Walbro are the people who make carbs for chainsaws etc. I have used them for a number of years and found them to be very reliable. Stewart Warner 240 is probably the best pump, no longer made but now and then on E-Bay. I have a SW pump that is 40 yrs old and still going strong. Mitsuba made a copy of a SW but I do not know if they are still made. If you are running two pumps, one from each tank, it is advisable to put a check valve on each pump inlet to prevent one pump pumping back to tank thru the other pump.
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