427 Windsor engine

[Simon]

Does anyone have any experience of a 351 Windsor based 427 stroker? Is there anything I should know/watch out for?
Not for the '40 I hasten to add, but another (possible) project.
Thanks

Simon

[Doc Watson]

Yes, with a stroked 351W the rod ratio suffers and you can get excessive 'side slap' of the pistons on the bore. Due to the increased throw on the crankshaft the piston has more side force pushing it into the block wall. This will lead to excessive piston ring wear. Not a problem if you like putting new rings in every so often.

I've thought about stroking my 351W but have decided not to and should still get around 400BHP with a 'mild' ish cam. I'm looking for a reliable motor that can drive me to and from Le Mans (i'm in the UK). I'm not saying dont stroke the motor but engine wear could be a problem.

[Tommy]

Simon,
I have a 427W in my 66 Cobra. Make sure the you clearance the cylinders. If you build it with 1.60 roller rockers and 0.540 lift rather than 600HP 0.600 lift springs on the heads you should be okay. I was offered 2 FE 427 motors and turned them down,due to the weight and the notorious oiling problems they had on the front bearings. I was also offered a 460 but turned it down due to the weight and size. It was awfully tempting as the 460s are neutral balanced. I would suggest using I beam rods and that will help on the clearance issue. Figure $1100 for the crank,rods and pistons and $1600 for the TFS track heat heads and Crane Rollers. Throw on a Holley double pump and Edelbrock intake and you will have 4 grand in the motor in parts. The trick is the builder. Find one you can trust and will treat you fair on the price. There are only two here where I live, but i am as close to Hawaii as I am to you so that wont help much. I always wanted a 427, and that is just a number that is stuck in my head. I dont intend to race it. I drive it on sunny days. If i wanted a race motor I would stroke a 460 to 5 gigga something and have 1150 hp fire breathing monster that had to be haltered to a trailer when not going the 1/4 mile. I have a 302 with flowmasters that rattles the neighbours windows when i go down the street in my cobra mustang, so i wanted something different for the snake. The GT40 is purely stock motor as it needs to last me as a daily driver into my retirement. I purchased it because it has a roof and the Cobra doesn't. Oh, with the 427W it becomes Smiles per gallon, keep that in mind.
Good Luck with your build, Slainte.

[Gary Gibbs]

Certain manufacturers support 4.125" or greater bores which allow the stroke to be shorter to obtain a 427 CI. For example the Dart block can be had with a 4.125" in bore (up to 4.185) which corresponds to a 4" stroke to get 427. Otherwise at 4" bore the stroke must be 4.17" to get the 427 CI. The former would have a better rod ratio (6.2"/4").

[RRD]

ford, dart and fontana (at least); all make 351 based blocks with a 9.5" deck heiight, that can easily accept a 4.125 bore.
combined with a 4" stroke, there you have it. all 3 make blocks in aluminum if you're on a weight loss program. add a set of heads that move a lot of air and you're in the 500 and 600 hp range; in a relatively small package. i'm building a Z351 ford alum block based 435 right now for my 1966 griffith 400. slow going, just cast the heads and have not even done the pattern for the intake yet... i'll post when i have real numbers.

[Tim Kay]

RRD

What is the "Z"351? What cam and intake/induction are you going with?

[gsharapa]

My last Superformance Cobra (sold in 2004) had a Keith Craft 427 (351 based) stroker. Keith Craft is known for his Pro 5.0 motors in the states and really knows what he is doing with these small block strokers. My block was the Ford W Racing Block as the Sportsman block will only produce a 418 stroker and the W block will go up to 454. Keith went with the 4.125 bore and then the stroke was much shorter. Brodix Trac II fully C&C heads and a solid roller. Engine made 638 HP & 605 Ft lbs of tork on the engine dyno. I ran a Divinci 950 carb and the car was awesome! Idle at 900 and very streetable with tons of power!

The Ford Crate Engine Z 351 is nothing more than a 351 with the new Z Aluminum Head Ford just came out with. They also offer this new Z head on the 342 and 347 stroker they build. I think the new 347 Z Head 450 HP would be a great choice for a GT40.....

[Tim Kay]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the new 347 Z Head 450 HP would be a great choice for a GT40.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Gary,

Would you choose the 347z over the 427/351w? for what reasons?

[RRD]

hey. Z351 is/was a ford motorsports 9.5 deck aluminum block with 4 bolt mains. i think either dry sump or wet. ok, for heads? well i sort of went out of control here. for years and years i've been a Gurney Weslake/Eagle fan. so i sent my GW's to the "head guy", who pronounced that to support much over 350 " of displacement the changes were as long as your arm. long and short of it is 2 years later, we're just beginning limited production of an inline valve, raised port head that basically takes the chevy sb2 intake, the ford combustion chamber and the dodge exhaust; and puts them all together. out of the box, 2.05 intake, 360cfm plus on the intake and over 80% on the exhaust. awsome at low lift to max area under the curve. i'm just changing foundrys now, and hope to have things more together in a few weeks. for induction i'll use a proprietary 4bbl intake; although we have an eye popper of an efi intake not yet patterned or cast. my head designer does a lot of nascar and other related work. he says almost everyone really stretches, being charitable here, the flow of their heads. says he's never been able to duplicate quoted #s on his bench. my heads will take up to a 2.19 intake, and will, according to the designer, easily go over 400 with some cnc work. and all this 'cause i'm a gurney fan. these heads are not stock architecture. no bolting the stock 351 intake up to them... but, if you want the flow, things have to change. we'll be deciding soon how the "distribution channel" will work. so stay tuned. i'll also be glad to post my 427W (ok, 435) results when it's finished up. we also have a couple of race teams who are willing to test an existing shortblock for us. also, they can't be run with a "usual" ford pattern "exhaust heavy" cam. they flow way too well on the exhaust side.

rd

[Richard Timte]

Simon,

As stated by others the rod angle is really to big and excessive ware will occur. Also you need to get a good set of heads that really flow. Windsor style heads can run on these motors but a canted valve (Yates, Brodix BF202's or the like) should be used. I went with a 4.125 X 3.75 (401 CI) with as long a rod I could fit and not have the pin in the oil rings.

[Jim Downard]

The 408W is a really popular motor, and seems to be quite strong and reliable. Personnaly, I'm running a 393W in my Cobra as I didn't really want the whole rod ratio thing to be a problem. It's mild, and I'm making 360 rwhp and 400 lb ft torque at the rear wheels also.

[Tommy]

The 427 is just a number thing. I probably drive faster in my 302 mustang with the flowmasters. It's just that i always wanted a 427 Cobra with a stickshift.

[gsharapa]

Tim,

I guess it depends on the car you are putting the engine in. In a Cobra I most definatly would go with the 427W vs a 347. GT40 unless you have a ZF transaxle and a lot of $ I'd probably go with the 347 as it is around 450 hp vs the 427 at 600 plus hp. The 408 stroker someone mentioned would also be a good choice. Much cheaper than the 427W and you can use the Ford Sportsman Block vs the Ford Racing W block on the 427W. All good choices!

[Tim Kay]

Gary, Good advice although I'm going to try my luck with a G50 behind the 427 Alumi Dart.

[gsharapa]

Be interested on your results with the aluminum Dart 427 with the G50......

[Tim Kay]

Hope to have reports by late summer [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]