Diesel GT40 ?

Frank Catt · 10-03-05, 03:44 PM

OK, so one of our GTD40 owners has just perfected a Biodiesel "still" to refine his own fuel, its a bit like the old moonshiners kit to look at, but it produces a very good usable fuel. This led us onto the discussion, if he felt so inclined, which diesel engine would he fit into the GTD. So what engine would you fit ? Frank

Brett James-McCall · 10-03-05, 04:35 PM

The one I saw last week, but everyone else won't see until next year. All I'll say is V8 diesel, should go rather nicely... certainly the large 4WD did, and most of you know who I work for [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Brett

JimmyMac · 10-03-05, 04:41 PM

Good one Frank,

Why buy a horse if you really want milk for your cornflakes ? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

All the best,

Andy Besic · 10-03-05, 04:52 PM

You know this just leads us to the endless discussion of what transaxle will have the guts to hold a diesel's monster torque and have a final drive that will mate with an engine that is governed around 3800 rpm. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
Maybe a 930 turbo 4-speed with oilers, hardened gears, and a 2.5 R&P would work.
OK Brett what kind of hill flattening numbers did you experience? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 10-03-05, 05:56 PM

What about a tweeked VW Touareg V0 5.0L Diesel - 500BHP and 850-900NM !! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Anyone got a spare Ricardo box knocking about under their bench - Mike? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

JimmyMac · 10-03-05, 06:02 PM

C'mon boys !
Wake up and get serious here.
Magic mushrooms are now illegal. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Frank Catt · 10-04-05, 07:02 AM

Jimmy, if you had free fuel? I,m not saying it will be done, only "what if !" Frank

Mike Inglis · 10-04-05, 07:35 AM

Why? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

ChrisL · 10-04-05, 09:55 AM

Not such a stupid idea [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
See Here

Howard Jones · 10-04-05, 11:41 AM

I supose we could build a replica of the flying carpet 40 years from now.

As far as fuel costs go, who cares! If you can't afford the green fees, sell the clubs.

If I go out Sunday morning for a 100 mile drive. A nice easy one at more or less legal speeds it will take me about 2 hours or so. I will burn about one tank, 6-7 gals and spend about $20. Cheap fun by any measure.

Or........... I could tie my horse to the front of my GT40 and I could run it on hay. 10 bucks a bale and a bale goes for 4-5 DAYS!!!!!!!! Slow but cheap!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna have to take a picture of this one.

Frank Catt · 10-04-05, 03:39 PM

Howard, I like the horse idea ! Just to keep it in perspective, 7 gallons in the UK would cost you $62, not $20. Frank

Howard Jones · 10-04-05, 04:36 PM

Ya but how much is beer?

Brett James-McCall · 10-04-05, 05:02 PM

Howard,
Depends where you drink.. I have paid $8 for some Belgian beers even here in Essex (not even London) and as little as $3.60 down by my in-laws in Wales. So that can vary between $28.80 - $64 a gallon. Damn those Belgians for making good beer [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Its ruining me [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Brett

JimmyMac · 10-04-05, 05:04 PM

Frank,
I agree with you and it is possible to crack our own light ends. But I think it would cost us more in other fuel sources to power the equipment.
In the meantime I have a few steam engines I might want to keep.

Howard,
In England a gallon of drinking water can be more expensive that a gallon of petrol or even cheap beer.
It also cost some homes more for the water to flush their cysterns that you pay for fuel and we have all that rain !!. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

**jimbo** · 10-04-05, 11:10 PM

This is not such a dumb idea, not from the standpoint of the cost of fuel (diesel costs about what premium does here, especially during the winter, when you compete with the heating oil folks) but for the following reasons:
-there is more energy latent in diesel fuel- the hydrocarbons are more complex and there are more chemical bonds to provide energy from combustion
-diesel fuel is oily, so parts of the systems in a diesel engine are self-lubricating. This is one of the reasons that diesels run for longer lives, despite higher internal stresses from the higher compression ratios
-there have been a few diesel facing cars over the years- Cummins ran a few at Indy I think. There is a HUGE amount of experience with high-output diesels in offshore powerboat racing, and they are the winning combination in a lot of those races. Especially the Italian builders have done very well with them.
-modern high-speed (relatively) marine diesels are getting to the 3.5lb/hp ratio, or better. This is still far heavier than gasoline engines.

Diesels operate in a far different rev range than gas engines. High speed for a diesel is a Yanmar marine engine turning 400 revs- this is at the top of the range. 3K range is more typical. This means a whole different set of gearing choices.
Diesels produce a lot more power per unit fuel and are more economical. In racing, this means fewer fuel stops, which over a 12 or 24 hour race makes a big difference. If you can pit for fuel 2/3 of the time everyone else is doing it, you have a huge advantage.
The CAT v engine race car project above is very interesting. I don't know which CAT engine this is- they do not make a V8 over here that looks like that. It must be Perkins engine that CAT helped them hotrod. CAT recently bought Perkins, I think.
Finally, diesel horses seem to be bigger than gasoline ones, maybe because of the difference in rev range. My CAT 3116 marine engines make 350hp, but make nearly 800 ft/lbs of torque. Rev limit is 2850 under load.
Oh- they weigh about 1700 each, with transmission. Not too far from what my GT40 weighs, without its' engine. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Frank Catt · 10-05-05, 04:43 AM

Jimmy, now you have said it ! Steam - I love it, as anyone who has driven steam engines will know, an 1890s Road traction engine with a full head of steam and no brakes is as about as good a road vehicle as I have driven, it may take an hour to start and another 15 minutes every running hour to refuel and fill with water, but what a sensational thing to drive. Standing start quarter mile is a thing of leisure, enjoy the scenery and the panic of other drivers getting out of the way, but equalls a good 40 any day. Frank

Colin Artus · 10-05-05, 11:27 AM

The link that Chris L gave reveals all: The engine was the Vw 5l V10. Since the US has ignored the use of diesel engines for car use, due to the historicaly low price of gasoline, the latest generations of turbodiesels have not been seen in the States. They are now more popular than their petrol counterparts for large executive vehicles in Europe and the engines from BMW, Mercedes and VW lead the way. With the latest high pressure fuel systems (2000 + psi) the fuel efficiency and useable rev range are quite unlike the offerings of ten years ago. I don't know why VW/Audi hasn't taken the lead in using this technology for endurance racing, perhaps they have spent too much money faffing around with Bugatti.

Colin Artus

Frank Catt · 10-05-05, 11:52 AM

Jim et al, Farmers in UK are now being subsidised by the EU to grow crops for making biodiesel, and this has now become a higher profit business than growing food ! You can see where the priorities are in this world.

Lynn · 10-05-05, 01:47 PM

Frank,

If the proper gearbox and ratios can be had, I think its a great idea! Of course, I am known to be on the finges where this sort of thing is concerned [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

In reading the material on the Perkins race car experiment, the clutch used will also take much consideration.

Regards,
Lynn

JimmyMac · 10-05-05, 04:09 PM

Frank,
I think I'm going to give up building airports for a living and try this EC farming pound notes game. - Money for old rape !!!.

And yes, I could even use a 7 ton Fowler traction engine to gather in the crop cheaper than a big Japanese tractor anytime.

Hmmmm ???
Mussolini was right to use the Leeds Fowlers to drain the marshes outside Rome instead of buying the Italian, French or German competition.....