Blowers - eg Vortech

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 12-12-05, 08:19 AM

Hi all -

Anyone here any experience of Vortech Superchargers? good or bad? I'm looking at supercharging a small block Ford and their units appeal to me.

Longterm reliability is of high importance and boost levels will remain fairly low, allowing compression to remain highish and avoid too much off-boost lag.

Any experience / thoughts / input would be most welcome... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mark Worthington · 12-12-05, 09:50 AM

The supercharger itself is pretty reliable, although the reliability of the engine is highly dependant on the tune, whether or not there's an intercooler, and how the engine is built (e.g., compresison ration, forged internals, etc). There are lots of guys running Vortech blowers on Mustangs with stock engines and conservative tunes with no troubles.

Would this application be for a GT40? If so, I don't think it'll fit.

Ron Earp · 12-12-05, 10:00 AM

I've used them and they work just fine. But, I don't like their characteristics very much. I think you'll do yourself some justice to get out and experience some of the blowers first hand and see what you like.

The centrifugal blowers, to me, are soft and really only do anything in the upper-mid and upper part of the power spectrum. And, the dyno plots show that too.

On the other hand, the positive displacement blowers such as an Eaton (modified roots) or Whipple/Kenne Bell (Lysholm screw) can and do provide power throughout the RPM range and are well suited to V8 applications in cases where 6500+ RPM power is not the goal.

In the end you can pulley them such to change and mask certain characteristics such as having the centrifugal come in eariler. But, essentially it is a turbo compressor that is driven by a belt off the engine and simply doesn't provide the positive displacement feel of a "true" supercharger. IMHO of course.

The blowers work fine though and I've installed two of them before. Things worked fine, lined up, etc. and it did the job. Reliability will be fine, but I think the "off boost" lag has more to do with air flow than a point or two of compression - these blowers just don't do a lot in the lower RPM range.

Ron

Mike Dozier · 12-12-05, 01:34 PM

Of course having a blower that's "soft" on the bottom end
may be beneficial for tranny life...similar to a turbo.
The packaging probably has a lot to say about which is better suited (turbo, centrifugal blower, Rootes blower) for your application.

MikeD

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 12-13-05, 12:39 PM

Thanks all,

The vehicle is a GTD40 so size and location are going to play a major part as to whether this option is possible.

I like the soft characteristics suggested at lower revs as it will prolong transmission life and if it is being used on track, it's probably going to be buzzing anyway..

Cheers!

Howard Jones · 12-13-05, 09:15 PM

Wow... Paul, how much power do you NEED??? Can't wait to see the product of your addiction! This reminds of me of that little blond chick screaming Power! power! power! at Spa.(on the GTD club website video)

I would love to see your GTD going down that hill thru the start finish line with about 800Hp!! I have to wonder if the screamin might change to Brakes! brakes! brakes brakes! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif[/img]

Ron Earp · 12-14-05, 11:38 AM

Paul, if you are doing a GT40 with a blower that is about the only way to go, a centrifugal blower. Right now I know of nothing else that would fit.

But, I've always wondered why someone didn't come out with a good and low profile blower manifold for the Ford SB that would accomadate a positive displacement blower. What I mean is a manifold with a flat top and runners underneath like the Ford 3.8L SuperCoupe engine used in the Thunderbird Supercoupe from 89-95. The manifold looks like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-M90-...1QQcmdZViewItem

The manifold accept the discharge from the blower, routed it underneath in the valley where the manifold had runners to the head. That way it saved precious height and kept the overall engine height low since the blower sat down flat on top of the manifold in the valley. The blower snout stuck straight out front and had no problem to be belt driven.

I bet if we had the same thing for Ford SBs we could put a Eaton or screw blower right down in there and keep the over all height low enough to put into a GT40. There blower packages sort of like this, like the Kenne Belle blower that fits on a 5.0L motor, but it uses a Ford SB stock lower intake which wastes an incredible amount of space over what this sort of design could acheive.

R

Gary Gibbs · 12-14-05, 01:01 PM

Part of the problem will be driving the blower because of space reasons. I mentioned before that Tilton makes clutch and flywheel systems that are made to drive accessories from the back of the motor. So you mount the blower backwards and drive it off the flywheel. Get a low profile unit and I would guess you could make it fit.

Ron Earp · 12-14-05, 07:25 PM

Gary, those are cool, but you wouldn't need them for this setup. The blower snouts come from Eaton in 1/2" increments and are interchangable easily. If a crank fire ignition is used, like in Paul's car, the snount would simply shoot straight out the front right near the water neck and be driven by a belt. I think you could also do one with a dizzy, as long as the dizzy was one of the tiny Mallory type units or similar. I still think there would be a market for this type of blower kit despite the SB being out of production.

R

Gary Gibbs · 12-15-05, 01:37 AM

On my car I do have the motor far enough forward that I do not think there would be sufficient room. Not sure if this is typical for others though.

Ron Earp · 12-15-05, 08:53 AM

If you have room for a dizzy, or have a dizzy, then you'd have enough room. Maybe even if you didn't there would be enough. All you'd need is enough room right beside the water neck for about a 2" diameter pulley. I quickly looked for a 3.8L SC picture but didn't find it, it is quite tidy, much more so than the Eaton on my truck or other installs I've seen and the top mount discharge they used on the SC is not necessary. But, if yours is squashed up in there that tight it might not be an option but you could still use the rear drive. Go ahead and install one and give it a go! R

TimB · 12-15-05, 10:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you have room for a dizzy, or have a dizzy, then you'd have enough room. Maybe even if you didn't there would be enough. All you'd need is enough room right beside the water neck for about a 2" diameter pulley. I quickly looked for a 3.8L SC picture but didn't find it, it is quite tidy, much more so than the Eaton on my truck or other installs I've seen and the top mount discharge they used on the SC is not necessary. But, if yours is squashed up in there that tight it might not be an option but you could still use the rear drive. Go ahead and install one and give it a go! R

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right on Ron. They do make one for the modular 4.6 that fits in the valley but the SB is left out in the cold. Here is a picture of my modular blower for illustration on just how tidy it can be. I apologize in advance for the size of the second picture

Paul Thompson 'Hooligan' · 12-15-05, 07:54 PM

Hi ALL

The Blower is not to go on Roys GTD (he has other plans I believe this Winter [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) but is to fit another club member's GTD.

At the moment I am investigating the various options, as I'm not even sure I can fit one in but as I have previously lowered the motor slightly, I'm hoping it will fit in place of the air-con (like we need it over here [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

I know the Eaton/Screw type and figure too much up top - I just don't think it will fit without major rework...

Also, I will be pulling the motor apart shortly to see just what is there and how suitable it is for blowing. The conversion has to remain sensible in budget else we might as well build a new stroker instead.

One thing I am interested in incorporating is water/methanol injection to help maintain detonation under control whilst retaining useful amounts of ignition advance. One of our club members uses it on her blown Viper GTS and reports great results - especially in mid-range torque.

The car will still be used on both road and track but is always run on SUPER, which is 97-99 Ron over here. Might also look at a 'NO BOOST' get you home switch for the occasions SUPER might not be available on the road (Rare) and normal unleaded has to be used (95 Ron).

Thanks for the input all - fingers crossed!