Ford engine ....

FelixG · 01-16-06, 04:54 AM

Most of you guys seem to build serious GT40 racing machines ... so what i am asking might seem a little strange to you ...

I live in the Philippines and my hobbie is to tinker with cars (and a boat). I have built a Thunderbird 1960 almost entirely with original parts. However my next project is a GT40. The entire notion of midengine layout is new to me.

The planned GT40 will be more of a toy and will most certainly never see a race track or reach speeds over 120 mph. It could have an automatic transmission. The plan is to use as much locally available components as possible. The choices are very limited since the models sold in this country are few. Spare parts is a major concern.

Ford sells the Expedition and Explorer with V6 and V8 engines. So this would be a nice choice. Are these engines suitable? Also available is the Ford Escape with 4 and 6 cyl. engines. The Ford Focus just has been launched.

As for transaxles the choices are meager. Audi is selling a few cars here, but has no real dealership. The Japanese have the largest market share, but no sports cars.

Could anyone point me into the right direction what engine/transaxle/transmission would be easiest to assamble with the contstraints i mentioned above. I gladly give more information as to what is available in the Philippines.

Thanks in advance ....
Felix

Doc Watson · 01-16-06, 05:16 AM

I would suggest you use a standard V8 302 ford engine block and link this with a Renault UN21 transaxle. Try a search for the transaxle here and you will get info on it. I believe from memory that it was used in a Turbocharged rally car but its monday morning and my brain still needs an hour or two to fully boot up. The reason for the V8 is that most chassis are built to accept this and also a gt40 isnt a gt40 without a bundle of 8 snakes hanging of it.

Just my opinion.

Doc Watson

FelixG · 01-16-06, 05:50 AM

Thanks Doc Watson for your reply. I agree with you that the V8 is the way to go ... the V8's offered by Ford in the Philippines are

a.) 5.4L SOHC Triton V8 engine (this is something like 279)
b.) 4.6L SOHC Triton V8 Engine (this is something like 327)

sorry we are metric here ....

Renault does not exist in this part of the world (although we have sister company Nissan here). So as for the transaxle its a no-go.

As you see we have major limitations here ... perhaps that gives you and idea what kind of help i need.

Bill Musarra · 01-16-06, 06:48 AM

Felix,
Do you have access to any front wheel drive setups? Check around. Do you have any access to fabrication equipment or a competent machine shop? Sounds like you are headed in that direction if you are serious about a project. What are your circumstances about importing? licensenceing(sp?),registration?
Bill

Doc Watson · 01-16-06, 08:39 AM

I dont see that there is an issue with the transaxle if you want to import it. My roof had to come from South Africa and I'm in the UK!!!! although spares might be an issue. I did a little research and it seems that Renault have about 20 dealers in Australia, also UK companys ship worldwide, i've listed a few I have found who sell the UN21 transaxle. I think some will also sell a bellhousing for it. Spend 30 mins searching google for suppliers in your area.

One thing to note with the V8 engines is to check that they have the same bellhousing mounting bolt positions as the 302 V8 engines.

www.mdagt40.com
based in UK
www.roaringforties.com.au
based in australia
www.saker.co.nz
this is an interesting site which has cars with Nissan V8 engines linked to UN1 transaxles and dealers in Australia.

The list is not exhaustive but the final call is up to you as to engine transaxles you choose.

Doc Watson

ChrisL · 01-16-06, 09:15 AM

Felix,
Roaring Forties manufacture a chassis that will take the 4.6 V8 and will also supply everything you need to bolt it up to an Audi transaxle. No need to do any fabricating. See their web site here... Roaring Forties

Mark Worthington · 01-16-06, 11:57 AM

The Ford Explorer was using the 5.0L pushrod V8 until the mid 90s. I'm sure you could find a used one.

FelixG · 01-16-06, 10:19 PM

Hi Bill,
yes front wheel drive setups are the norm in this country. however they mostly are the compact cars such as toyota corolla, mitsubishi lancer and nissan sunny (called sentra here). lately we also got volvo s40 and some other models from europe with more powerful engines.

fabrication is the way to go here. renting a garage space with tools and labor (yes a mechanic is included) will cost me around US$ 200 per month. the locals do not have much experience but are masters at improvisation and problem solving. if i have drawings (or sample) i can get any part manufactures without a doubt.

importation is very, very difficult. not only will i get problems with registration, but it will be charged about double the value of each item with handling, brokerage and importation duty. in addition to that i will only find out that it "does not fit" once it is here.

we have a great source of what they call "surplus" engines and parts here. there is nothing i can't find at very low prices provided that the car it came from is a model available in the Philippines.

hope the above information helps you to understand my situation.

Felix

FelixG · 01-16-06, 10:22 PM

Hi Mark,

unfortunately Ford only came to the Philippines 6 years ago .... so all the engines would have to be 2000 up ... but am sure that i can find ... with this Forums help .... the suitable engine-transaxle setup.

thanks for your interest and hope you can give me some tips.

Felix

FelixG · 01-16-06, 10:23 PM

Doc Watson,

importation has so many problems here that i really want to consider it only once all other possibilities have been exhausted ...

Felix

Howard Jones · 01-17-06, 12:30 AM

My advice is to find a transaxle from a two wheel drive Audi, Porche, or even a VW, first. Once you have that in hand you can pick a direction to begin designing the rest of the car around. 1st Choice would be a Audi transaxle with a Ford or Chev V8. It might even be possible to use a VW transaxle if you limmit power to about 200 HP. In that case you could use a V6 from a Asian car.

You will need to make adapter plates and work out clutch, flywheel, adapters etc. But if you can design it it can be fabricated.

The other hard parts to come by will be the front windshield, uprights, radiator, and fiberglass body pannels including the dash board pannel.

The rest you can make, well, at least in theory.

Word of caution. These cars are not the easiest "kit" cars to build. To try and do so with out any ability to import at least some parts is going to be very challenging.

The best bet might be to import a complete car from New Zealand or Australia.

Jac Mac · 01-17-06, 01:44 AM

Hi Felix, Im lining myself up for a double dose of the forum flamethrower here ,but what the heck, In your case where you simply require a transaxle and strength and originality are not an issue, how about the unit from one of the more powerful Subaru models.(I assume these are available in the Philippines).Its not a big deal to discard the shaft to the rear diff and the transaxle should already have the correct rotation etc. However before we get to far into this perhaps we should move to the transaxle forum. Regards Jack

FelixG · 01-17-06, 05:26 AM

Dear Howard,

i will defenitely follow your advise and look for the transaxle first.

Both Ford and Chevy have V8 here in the market ... so after i found a suitable transaxle i will just see what engine fits best. But it would be nice to go with Ford. Audi, although a small player here has an unoffical dealer in the Philippines. I will check with them what is available.

as mentioned before this will be my second project. for the T-Bird i had to fabricate the windshield (very much more difficult then GT40 due to bend) and the radiator. Both were done locally and can't be distinguished from the originals. Not to mention the savings .... the mold for the windshield was US$140.00 and each windshield is US$65.00

i keep you posted ...

Felix

Russ Noble · 01-17-06, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
as mentioned before this will be my second project. for the T-Bird i had to fabricate the windshield (very much more difficult then GT40 due to bend) and the radiator. Both were done locally and can't be distinguished from the originals. Not to mention the savings .... the mold for the windshield was US$140.00 and each windshield is US$65.00

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Felix if that's indicative of the expertise you can lay your hands on, then nothing should be a problem. Just time consuming presumably. You might be able to start a thriving export business at those prices!![img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1poke.gif[/img]

Good luck with the project

Regards

JCoop · 01-23-06, 04:07 PM

Felix,

I too, am from the Philippines but "escaped" during martial law in early 70s. I'm familiar with fabrication capabilities there and I don't think you'll have a problem. You should fabricate in stainless as the artisans that make the jeepneys will take the challenge and surprise everybody with what they can do with a hammer and torch. I've seen some incredible stuff there.

What about the Audi Getrag 5 spd tranny? It's what I have in mine and I think that although many people feel it's geared too low (about 75mph @ 3500rpm in top), it would be perfect for the speeds you'll be able to drive there. That's a good one to use and easily mates to the Ford small block. BTW, I wll email you the name of a friend (if I can find it) in Manila who is in the surplus import business. We used to bring in 289s and some big blocks from Guam to build open wheel hot rods in the late 60s. Last I heard he just finished a 34 Ford with a 289 2 years ago Maybe he can help you get a 302 or something.

Good luck in your endevour.
Ray

TimB · 01-25-06, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mark,

unfortunately Ford only came to the Philippines 6 years ago .... so all the engines would have to be 2000 up ... but am sure that i can find ... with this Forums help .... the suitable engine-transaxle setup.

thanks for your interest and hope you can give me some tips.

Felix

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you are in luck. The explorer had the 302 pushrod all the way through 2001. 2002 was the first year of the modular (4.6) engine in the explorer