Front Dress - What a mess!

Ron Earp · 08-21-06, 06:21 PM

I've been waiting forever for parts for the front dress on this motor. Pump, then fuel cams,then tapping the fuel pump cam, fixing the old cover, lots of things.

Waited three weeks for some billet pulleys from FMS that were supposed to fit, but, they don't. The water pump pulley would need at least a 1" shim to get it out far enough to mesh with the crank pulley. What is the point of having a short pump if you are going to shim the pulley out to where a regular pump would be? And, naturally, the crank pulley is also much longer than it needs to be.

And, this pulley set was supposed to work with the short standard rotation pump. Anyone using this pump, short pump from FMS, with v-groove pulley? What pulley set did you use to get it to work?

Still no parts from Kennedy. So, build on this car will start like September 1. 2007 at this rate!

Ron

Ron Earp · 08-21-06, 08:12 PM

Alright, figured this issue out. I have pulley kit 8509C and this is for the long pump. And, according to the FMS catalog it'd take a 1.5" spacer to make it fit.

I need 8509-Q, a single groove set for this pump. 8509-Q has been, according to Jegs and Summitt, discontinued. Yay.

R

Steve Toner · 08-21-06, 11:33 PM

Call the guys at March Performance and see if they can set you up with something.

I used Ford pulleys on my engine when I put it together, and ended up with some spare parts. I think I used pulleys from two different kits. Of course I had the weird 289 (3 bolt balancer) with 302 water pump deal. Oh yeah, and AC, which meant I needed a 2V crank pulley... Anyway, it seems to go with the territoryfor these cars for some reason.

Kalun D · 08-22-06, 02:17 AM

Went through the exact same issue on mine, bought the short water pump for clearance and then the available pulleys just about took away all the clearance, especially at the crank. Ended up with a remote electric WP.

Did find a Chevy (small block V8) pulley for the crank that fits flush but had to machine an adapter so it's hubcentric instead of bolt-centric and drill 3 new mount holes. Then had to machine a pulley for the Honda alternator and a custom alt bracket.

Ron Earp · 08-22-06, 09:21 AM

Yes, this is getting rather frustrating. March is moving and don't do "custom" projects. I can't seem to find this piece in stock anywhere, tried three FMS dealers so far. Doesn't show on "locator" which tries to locate parts lying around on shelves.

You know, those alternator/water pumps that Sandy posted and I thought about are not beginning to look all that bad........but a $1000 is a lot of cash.

However, I'll have about 1/2 that in this when all said and done and a LOT more hassle. $100 alternator, $50 front cover, $150 water pump, and probably $250 in pulleys to make the blasted thing work. And time.

Might just have to get a standard long nose pump or make a 1.5" spacer. Seems a shame.

R

Sandy · 08-22-06, 11:34 AM

Ron -

John over at racemate could make the pulley that you need, as I recall he said he will do custom work like that, but when you end up getting done I'll bet that it will be close to the cost of the racemate with all the rest you already purchased. It would be a bunch simpler since you could ditch some of the alternator brackets and the alternator itself. It sounds like you have room for the longer water pump and if so that sounds like the simple route.

What a pain!

Sandy

Ron Earp · 08-22-06, 12:02 PM

It is a pain. I did find out from FMS a place that is supposed to have some of the 8509-C sets for the short pump. The reason FMS doesn't have them now is they lost their supplier and are looking for a new one. They still sell the pump and plan to offer it in the future. If I can get a set they are only $149, for all three pulleys. So this would come out okay - if I can get one.

The Racemate deal really does look good. Yes, it is $1000, and takes at least a month to get, but those guys have never had a water pump failure since they build their own and it looks to be top quality work. And there isn't a lot of hassle - which is starting to be worth about $500 now.

Gary Gibbs · 08-22-06, 12:51 PM

I did a post some time ago with the setup I was using which included a short standard rotation WP with a grooved (FWD rotation) serpentine setup. Photos included. Only the WP pulley was custom.

aji · 08-22-06, 12:58 PM

Well

Just an idea

Have someone cut the crank pulley, remove the material needed to align the V pulley slots and weld it up again, then balance as needed, if needed. I suppose you can mark the crank pulley with both parts bolted up and a straight edge. You can make the weldment part stronger if you wish by adding material.

I'm sure a machine shop with lathe and tig welder would be happy to help you out.

best

Cliff · 08-22-06, 02:15 PM

Ron,

Is this what you're looking for?

New Ford Racing Single Groove 3-Piece Aluminum Pulley Set
http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...1716&pid=46693

Ron Earp · 08-22-06, 02:20 PM

That is it - I'll call them and see if they have it but most all say "oh, it'll take a few days to get it" and I say, well, Ford says it is discontinued so now what?

"Oh, well, then we can't get it"

Called, nope, don't have it and can't get it. But, thanks for thinking of me and posting it!

So many of these parts places are just distributors and have no parts. Still trying on that contact that was reported to have a few in stock.

And, yes, I thought about a new pulley but I'd need a new crank pulley too - both are different from the short setup. Basically the set I have is for a standard setup and must be returned to whince it came.

Ron

Bill D · 08-22-06, 03:10 PM

Ron-
I sent you a PM. I have the double groove short pump pulley sent (8509R). I found a dealership in LA that had two sets when I bought mine from them

Bill D

Cliff · 08-22-06, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Earp

Called, nope, don't have it and can't get it. But, thanks for thinking of me and posting it!

Ron

Sorry about that. I had remembered the short single-grove set from when I was contemplating dropping a 302 in my TR4. Needed the short WP to keep from hacking up the firewall.

Ron Earp · 08-22-06, 05:06 PM

Bill, thanks for that one too, no dice there either. Still haven't made phone contact with the one that is supposed to have some in stock, but, I'll buy what they have if they have more than one. I am sure someone in this forum will run into the same issue with the short pump. Sooner or later FMS will have them in stock, but that might be a year.

Ron

Colin Artus · 08-22-06, 06:53 PM

It might be worth trying RDI in Cornelius, NC. 704 - 892 8688.

aji · 08-22-06, 09:01 PM

what the hell!

Billet boy

Go buy a piece of aluminum and have one made.
http://www.mfgquote.com/profiles/CNC...-Carolina.html

Take the old part down and tell someone what you want.
Have someone make a proengineer model and give it to the folks already! what is the hold up!

I would have the engine running by now! LOL

booo whooo whoo

Ron Earp · 08-22-06, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capaci

what the hell!
I would have the engine running by now! LOL booo whooo whoo

In many cases I think like you and I could have it running in about 1/2 hour too if I wished to make a spacer for it.

In general making the pulley is is a relatively trival thing and I handle similar stuff like this for some of our track cars. However, while trying to source pulleys, do the home life thing, and work a full time job it becomes a little more challenging!

Hence me trying to locate one via phone in between working.

If I can simply pay $150 and have it done deal, then, it is a lot simplier time/money wise than doing it myself (yes, I have a lathe and some 6" round stock, might not be large enough) or taking it to a shop to have it done. I don't care if they are stamped steel or billet, makes no difference to me.

Regardless, the thread is useful for folks for those that do not have a shop handy, or lathe available to make a part. The pump is somewhat common, although not a OEM part on any Ford product. Since they sell it, you'd think the pulleys would be at least available. It is the "thinking" part of all of that which gets me, since I figured I'd solved this problem about 6 weeks ago when I ordered the front cover, pump, and pulleys, only to find they don't all quite mesh up as I intended.

Pantera1889 · 08-22-06, 11:19 PM

Ron,

I am using a remote mount electric pump on mine mounted up front. Have you thought about going that route?If you do,I can give you the part #s for what you need.

Good luck.

aji · 08-23-06, 02:05 AM

well Ron!

"If I can simply pay $150 and have it done deal, then, it is a lot simplier time/money wise than doing it myself (yes, I have a lathe and some 6" round stock, might not be large enough) or taking it to a shop to have it done. I don't care if they are stamped steel or billet, makes no difference to me."

Well then now. If you can't buy the part and cannot find it, why not modify the part you already have and be done with it. It is a race car, so get on with it.

Are you concerned with machining & welding part that you need to send back to try and find the correct part. Could be! then why complain about schedule! I know you are not feeling great about the effort as it is way behind schedule and I wonder why Kennedy has not shipped your stuff! I suppose that could care less about your Lola!

This is called System Engineering. When the part is not right you do something to make it correct, don't cry about schedule and pain in ass! get on with it. If schedule is no big deal then keep calling and crying about it! Booo whoo whoo the parts places say they have it but they don't,,, No sh!t what is new!, this is why they charged you for the wrong parts and took your money,,, hey thank you! then told you to make a spacer! you have just been spaced. Yes The Family Life! do not do this effort in full time, just do it when you have time!

I doubt you could make the part Ron! or else you would have already made it!

wait science and management will make it all better!