2006 Engine Masters Competition

Ron Earp · 10-04-06, 08:29 AM

Cool stuff, no matter what flavor your desire. Day by day results from the top engine builders around, and what is cool this time is judging isn't by peak horsepower but by average horsepower over a range.

2006 Engine Masters Results

Ron

Doug Sainlar · 10-04-06, 01:41 PM

Have they raised the displacement limits?

I noticed in the past that the engines were limited to 365 or 366 CID, but in this list of engines I notice 2 Ford FE engines and one Ford 385 series. Nice numbers, but big blocks for the most part unless they destroked the engines to comply with what may be older CID limits--It's been 2 years since I was following this competition.

There was even a Cadillac in there! Kaase entered a Pontiac this time, not a Ford. I saw no SBF's at all.

Doug

Ron Earp · 10-04-06, 01:59 PM

They aren't big blocks - most are poked and stroked small blocks, at least the Fords! Limit is 434 inches if I remember right.

Lee · 10-04-06, 02:09 PM

I believe they change the cubic limit each year, so you don't know how many hp you need to win. I believe also it has been based on averages for at least a couple of years. I read it somewhere on that site.

Ron Earp · 10-04-06, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I notice 2 Ford FE engines and one Ford 385 series. Nice numbers, but big blocks for the most part unless they destroked the engines to comply with what may be older CID limits--It's been 2 years since I was following this competition.

There was even a Cadillac in there! Kaase entered a Pontiac this time, not a Ford. I saw no SBF's at all.

We looking at the same thing? There is only one FE I saw tested on Monday, and no 385 big blocks as of this writing (wednesday not done). Everything else was Windsors SBs.

R

Doug Sainlar · 10-04-06, 04:22 PM

Maybe we were looking at different data. When I surfed in through the link in your original post, I got a home page and had to do some navigating to get to the results. When I clicked on the home page link that says Engine Masters results I get what looks like a catalog with no Engine Masters stuff, so I went in through one of the links on the left side where it says Engine Masters Challenge and then into Engine Dyno Pulls. That's where I saw the 2 FE's and the 385 series and the Cadillac motor--I didn't see anything about Windsors at all.

I'm a big computer dummy, though, so I may have just been too dumb to figure out how to get to the competition results through the home page link. If you have any suggestions, I'd sure appreciate them. I've followed this competition for the past 2 years and was curious about the small blocks (that's why I wondered if they had raised the CID limit--I thought they were all small blocks).

Thanks!

Doug

Ron Earp · 10-04-06, 04:41 PM

That is old data then. Go here:

2006 Engine Masters Results

Let it all load up and then right down the middle of the page are icons with results by each day - some stout Windsors in there! Looks like a unnamed Ford took it today.

Ron

Doug Sainlar · 10-04-06, 04:54 PM

Well, Duh!! Same "home page" I always got to, I just wasn't smart enough to look slightly to the left. Now I see the results day by day.

Thanks for helping this ol' computer dummy out, Ron!

Doug

Doug Sainlar · 10-04-06, 05:17 PM

It's nice to see that the four of the top numbers so far have been posted by Windsor block/CHI "Cleveland" headed Fords!

Monday--Team 35, Performance unlimited--combined HP and Torque=1027.20
Team 37, RHP/PER/AD--combined HP and Torque=1054.53

Tuesday--Team 26, C & J Racing--combined HP and Torque=1012.3
Team 44, McKeown Motorsports--combined HP and Torque=1054.9 (looks like they are in the lead so far).

Wednesday's data isn't complete, but there are Ford scores of 1026 and a 1013--the combination data isn't there yet, though, so no idea if these are Cleveland headed Fords or not.

CID limit is 434. That's a BIG small block!!

Go Fords!! Go Cleveland headed Fords!!!

BTW--if anyone is bitten by the "Cleveland" bug now, check out this web site: Aus Ford Parts These people are located in California, but sell all the good stuff from Australia. Lawrence said their heads will flow enough to support well over 600 horsepower right out of the box without any sort of massaging. They will also offer the "Clevor" intake manifolds at around the first of 2007.

No small block Chebbies???? Doesn't seem possible--they must be saving them for Thursday and Friday.

Stay tuned!

Doug

Pantera1889 · 10-04-06, 07:02 PM

Mark McKeown (who is currently in the lead) is the guy whop built the engine that I am putting in my RCR GT40!!!!
Pretty cool!

Ron Earp · 10-04-06, 07:32 PM

Excellent news!

Farm Engines = 0
Mopar = 0
Pontiac = 0
Hemi = 0

Suprised to not see some dang SB Chevys in there though turning some big numbers, they are certainly capable.

R

Jim S. · 10-04-06, 07:56 PM

No suprise to this Ford guy. Canted valve heads have always been great for making big numbers. Ford has always made great heads they just tried to turn the exhaust port down too quickly to clear the shock towers in some cases. They should have shortened the exhaust port and turned it down in the exhaust manifold instead and then you could have simply changed to a better manifold or headers and fixed the problem area. Not always the case though ie: BOSS 429, FE series, SOHC, these were all great heads right from the get go.

CHI has done a great job of taking a good head and making it great.

I was really suprised to not see Jon KAASE building something with his new canted valve windsor head. Still time I guess.

Doug Sainlar · 10-05-06, 12:44 PM

Wednesday's narative data is up now, and once again it's nice to see our 351 Clevors doing so well. Team 19, with a combined number of 1026.4, was a CHI headed SBF. Team 17 ran an Ford FE, team 14 ran a 385 series big block, and team 15 ran a 385 series big block. All the FE/385 engines reported lower numbers than the CHI headed Clevors.

I, too, am surprised that J. Kaase hasn't entered one of his canted valve head SBF motors into the competition, considering he did so well in the past. I did notice when I was searching in the wrong area that he entered a Pontiac. His numbers were 674.33 HP and 581.33 TQ, for a total of 1255.67 (not sure where that extra .01 came from). To find this info, go to the link Ron posted and when the page builds, go all the way to the links on the left and click on "engine dyno pulls". Kaase's Pontiac is #1. The other Ford FE and 385 pulls I mentioned in a previous post are also in this "engine dyno pulls" listing, but I have no idea if they are part of the Engine Masters competition or if they were just using the dyno for testing purposes. Let's hope Kaase enters one of his SBF motors so we can compare his heads agains the CHI heads. Too bad the data just lists the CHI heads and doesn't indicate if they are the 3V or the 4V heads. I could be wrong, but I think CHI makes both.

Still 2 more days. I saw some Chebbie big block pulls listed but no SBC pulls. They must be last in line. There were big HP numbers last year, in the 800+ HP range, so the big guns must be coming up.

Doug

Doug Sainlar · 10-06-06, 07:15 PM

More big numbers, but nothing in the 800+ HP range, like last year! It looks like Jon Kaase might have won with his Pontiac motor, but 5 out of the 6 finalists to pull today were Fords (no narative information yet to tell which motors were used) and Kaase's Pontiac won by only 1 point over the next closest Blue Oval entry, so it was incredibly close.

Doug

Jac Mac · 10-06-06, 08:35 PM

Nope, looks like a Ford pipped the Poncho @ the post. Cool Banana's!

5 out of 6 finalists were Fords. No Chebbies!!!! Fantastic!!! Now all I need is Ford to win Bathurst.

Jac Mac

Doug Sainlar · 10-10-06, 11:33 AM

Long live the Clevor! It looks like the SBC is on the run--didn't even show up for the fight (I think I saw one but it was way down on power).

I'm a bit surprised to see that the B.E.S. had better numbers at the bottom of the RPM range, but that is encouraging! Those CHI heads can post some serious numbers, but I was worried that it would be at the cost of some low RPM output. Sounds like I was worried for naught. That's the great thing about this competition--with the averaging of the HP and TQ outputs over a wide RPM range, it more closely approximates what we would expect of a street motor. Peak horsepowers for first and second place in the 700+ range are pretty good numbers, though!

I'd like to see them open the RPM range up a bit, maybe to 7K. As I understand it now (and I could sure be "mistaken" here) there is a 6500 RPM stop point for the pulls. Maybe next year???

Onward and upward to Bathurst! We "Fordophiles" will all be pulling for the Fords there, too.

Doug

Doug Sainlar · 10-10-06, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Sheren

No suprise to this Ford guy. Canted valve heads have always been great for making big numbers. Ford has always made great heads they just tried to turn the exhaust port down too quickly to clear the shock towers in some cases. They should have shortened the exhaust port and turned it down in the exhaust manifold instead and then you could have simply changed to a better manifold or headers and fixed the problem area.

Right you are, Jim. The Cleveland head design was always compromised by the exhaust port downturn. However, I found a new website some time ago and it looks like these guys have redisigned the 351C head's exhaust port! It looks like it's in a high port design, not quite straight out of the valve area but definitely not turning downward, and to top it all off it's a round port design rather than the old oval design with lots of material to allow enlarging the port to match a good round port exhaust flange/header system. This ought to make building Cleveland headers easier than they are now.

Check it out at: Aus Ford Parts

Check out their flow numbers, too! I'm waiting to see how these guys compare to the CHI heads that have done so well at the Engine Masters competition. Their claim is 620 HP potential right out of the box. Not bad at all!!

Doug

Russ Noble · 10-15-06, 06:46 AM

That's a pretty impressive result for John (CHI). At least four of the five Ford finalists using his heads. Not sure what Team 35 used.

I believe John is basically a one man band. A few years ago he flatted with a very good friend of mine who now lives near Queenstown, NZ. At that time his development work was done in her garage in Melbourne. It was one of those deals she couldn't refuse. "Let me use your garage and your car can stay out in all weathers and I'll do all the maintenance on it for you." Yeah right! I think she originally set his website up for him too.

Typical downunder shoestring approach that gets world class results from this neck of the woods. Australia and NZ are full of brilliant guys like John and we're proud of them.

Cheers