Ferrari 360 engine and transaxle

[Mesa]

Though I haven’t picked a chassis yet, at least I’m in the game.

Over the holiday break I picked up this little jewel. It’s a Ferrari 360 engine and six speed transmission from a totaled Modena. Since the engine had been sitting a number of years the engine needed some serious cleaning up, so I attacked it with degreaser and a power washer right off.

First impression – the plating on the fasteners and pulleys is crap. Most of these components were corroded to some extent or badly discolored. Since I absolutely hate wrinkle finish, I stripped the valve covers with much joy in anticipation of a nice glossy Ferrari red powder coating, yah baby, maybe I’ll toss in the pulleys to match.

The second step was to pull the heads and pan for inspection and check of the clearances. Engine appears to be in good shape internally with only dirty oil to cause any concern. The original owner was a little lax with his oil changes judging from this example.

After inspection and comments regarding on the multi angle 5 valve arrangement, the corresponding cam lobe angles and the hand ported appearance of the intake tract. The next thing my engine builder said was “there is room for bigger pistons in it”. Oh brother here we go.

I plan on using a Pectel ECU to operate the engine and fuel. The system is capable up to V12 and can handle fly by wire throttles and traction control, cool. Speaking of throttles I’ll probably use a custom rack or convert big bore motorcycle units in place of the stock (heavy) intake system. This will require a custom made set of manifolds but that should be simple enough, I’ll paint the intake manifolds red too.

The engine, less the variable length intake manifolds, a/c pump, clutch and exhaust manifolds weighs 381 lbs with 1.5 gallons of oil in it. The clutch pack weighs 30 lbs, the intake about 40 lbs, each exhaust manifold 15 lbs. The transmission weighs 190 lbs without the starter.

More later, if there is any interest.
Rob

[J. Salmon]

Replace the cam belts for certain.

If you need specific parts, here is a good source:
Ricambi America, Inc :

That is phenomenal find! P4 perhaps?

[CliffBeer]

Ditto - definitely change the cam belts before rotating her over too much. Best to check the cam timing before turning the engine over at all.

When you change the cam belts, make sure you mark everything well for timing purposes, and, lock the cams in place before undoing the belts - they like to rotate around once the belt is off.

Looks like a nice package for a P3/P4 replica!

[JohnC]

Originally Posted by Mesa

I plan on using a Pectel ECU to operate the engine and fuel. The system is capable up to V12 and can handle fly by wire throttles and traction control, cool. Speaking of throttles I’ll probably use a custom rack or convert big bore motorcycle units in place of the stock (heavy) intake system. This will require a custom made set of manifolds but that should be simple enough.
Rob

Rob, have you used these Pectel ECU's before? They look like serious kit!

Also interested to know what your experience has been using the motorcycle ITB's in automotive applications? I've been accumulating some GSXR 1000 TB's with the same thing in mind.

[Mesa]

JohnC - I see we are part of the Homeless Engine Brotherhood! (HEB). Have not used bike TBs on car engines but as long as the bore size works the rest should follow injector capacity may be a point, my racebike engine builder is pushing me to a custom made set-up for cosmetics but then its not his money either . Pectel - again my engine guy is using them with some really trick little V4 honda racebike engines and cutom TBs. I am piggybacking on his experience.

Cliff and Salmon - New belts for sure since I don't mess about and cut the old belts off! Pulled the heads before turning anything, crank turns free and heads look good no piston contact. Engine was supposed to be a 2001 with 18K on it, so far that looks a reasonable statement.

[JohnC]

Rob, lots of good info out on the web about bike TB's on 4 bangers, but haven't found too much info about people doing 8+ cylinder applications. Here's one of the more informative threads with dimensions, etc: MegaSquirt EFI :: View topic - Motorcycle, Snow-Mobile & Car Throttle Specs and Pics

BTW, I was in touch with Pectel yesterday, the SQ6 which will run a V12 in waste spark is only 2095 GBP, however their all singing/dancing T10S-F ECU is 8950 GBP - that one makes the MoTeC M800 look like a bargain

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by cribbj

BTW, I was in touch with Pectel yesterday, the SQ6 which will run a V12 in waste spark is only 2095 GBP, however their all singing/dancing T10S-F ECU is 8950 GBP

I'm good with that .........I can't sing - don't like to dance :-P
(we are looking at the QS6)

[Mesa]

It's been awhile since I posted to this thread. Early last year I ordered an SLC from Fran and my thought was to use a BBC or LS7 in that car, so that meant I didnt spend much time working on this package. But a year has allowed for some good progress, I replaced damaged parts on the transaxle, bought missing items and added the cable shift levers (it was a F1 paddle shift). I cleaned up the engine and heads and true to my original thought, painted them Scuderia Rosso.

Five valves per, anyone?
I dont have the intake as I planned to use ITBs, no alternator or A/C pump, needs timing belts and belt covers. I have entertained the idea of selling this setup so if you have a need, drop me a line, I will fill you in on the more specific details.



Rob

[Pete.]

The red heads sure do look better than the original crinkle finish. Did you paint or powder coat.

[Mesa]

Oh how I hate the crinkle finish.... the 360 has gray crinkle so it looks even more like a tool box.

Powder coat. If I end up using this for something I'll coat the (yet to be made) custom intake manifolds red and the end of the tranny too (now black). Would be a nice detail poking out the back of a car that you see the gearbox in.

[Foowowee]

Mesa, Very nice!

Mike

[David Briggs]

Awesome race car replica set up.
I ran a Modena up to 160 on a farm road(on a Monterey trip), paddle shift worked great, never ran it over 8,000 rpm, seemed too easy, had to point out the speed to my girl friend.
Normally that speed in the GT or any other big engined beater has the passenger covering their ears and begging for mercy!
Dave

[fostereast]

Does anyone have a picture of what the followers look like in the 5-valve head? Any detailed pictures of the head with the rocker covers off? Also what does the intake port look like?

[J. Salmon]

If you do need factory parts, this guy is generally the best:

Ricambi America, Inc :

I was sitting there thinking today (as I wait for my Lotus to come back from the dealer, now delayed 10 days) what a great setup a 355 or 360 motor in a SLC would be. All the fun of the Ferrari power plant without the headaches. Bravo!

[Mesa]

Foster - Not the best pics but here you go, no followers - direct action. Intake ports look just like my OW01 and R1 Yamahas....The whole head looks like a Yamaha five valve.

Salmjo - One reason the stock intake was discarded was to help avoid using the stock Ferrari computers, what a headache that would have been to integrate. The less Ferrari electronics the better. Besides that intake manifold was HEAVY. The Ferrari fun without the Ferrari.

[JohnC]

That intake port is pure art. Is that untouched from Ferrari or has a head porter been in there?

[Mesa]

Hi John,
The porting is stock and I think those valves are titainum. The engines have a hand built feel to them. The really trick aspect of the cam/valve relationship is that the outside intake valves are canted to the center (hemi like) with the cam lobes ground at an angle to match. That's got to be expensive.

[fostereast]

That is a work of engineering art. Very cool. What kind of lifts can manufacturers get off direct acting cams? Also what is the black manifold for?

[Mark Worthington]

I must've missed this thread last year but I'm glad I read it today. That's a nice setup. I assume it's a flat-plane crank? Is the OEM Ferrari exhaust a tri-Y setup?

I'm also curious on your asking price for that setup.

Nice thread!