Oil Pressure Help!!!!

[Peter Olliviere]

I need some suggestions before I take the big punge and start pulling my motor down.

The problem, Oil Pump will not prime.

Engine, 302, stock pump and Canton 7Qt Road Race Pan.
Canton Remote oil filter.

Motor has been sitting about a year before being installed. Everything was checked before install in car but forgot to prime pump.

no matter how much i spin the pump with the priming tool it will not pump oil, if I reverse the direction of the pump (clockwise) I can get a strong suction on the filter input line. If I put oil down that line I can hear the pump glugging but when I drive the correct way very little oil is pumped out. If I remove both lines from the filter and spin the pump still nuthing comes out of either line. I have checked and rechecked oil flow direction to the filter in case that is the problem but unless I can't see it, it is hooked up correctly.

My next step would be to take the car to a friends shop and put it on the lift to drop the pan. I would like to avoid doing that so I am open to suggestions.

On Friday I leave for a week of cruising the Hawaiien islands and don't want to be have this on my mind when I should be having a good time.

Help, Peter

 

[Bill Bayard]

Peter,


Is there any possibility that your oil pump is a

marine engine version from a reverse rotation 302?

The 302W is commonly used in small boats.

Where did you source it?


Have fun in Hawaii!



Bill

 

[Bob Putnam]

If the remote filter is plumbed backward, it might keep the pump from priming (and will definitely keep oil from flowing).

 

[Dean Lampe]

I agree with Bob. Disconnect your remote filter and see what happens.

 

[Rob]

I'm with Bill on this one.....my first thought was marine engine concern.

There is mention of spinning the filter directly to the block, so don't think that's it.

Interesting issue for sure.

 

[Peter Olliviere]

I disconnected both lines at the remote filter and spun the pump, my thinking was that something should come out of one of the lines. The result was that both line remained empty with very little air movement from either one. I would thing that if the filter was connected wrong, then when it's lines were opened up the blockage would be removed allowing the pump to prime.

What is the first place the oil flows to from the pump, the filter or the block itself?

Peter

 

[Frank Catt]

My first thought is that it is probably related to the oil pick up pipe in the sump, if the engine has sat around in the shop for a while, probably been moved a few times, the oil pick up pipe has either been mis assembled or damaged, and that an air leak has occured above oil level line in the sump. I would be doing a quick sump off check before going much further. Frank

 

[Clois Harlan]

Pulling the pan is very easy and then you will know for sure what your issues are. But, (assuming you have a remote cooler and filter) before I did that I would dis-connect all my remote oil hardware. Then barrow or buy a std oil filter mounting fixture and spin an oil filter on it. Then try priming your your engine. If nothing happens then pull your pan and replace your oil pump and pickup. Everything is cheap at this point but I can tell you from my personal experience that 15 mins with a bad oil pump can cost you $10k. Things happen to new parts too!

Clois Harlan

 

[Jac Mac]

I agree with Frank, if you have removed the fitting from the original oil filter pad, tipped some oil down into the pump via the hole in the outer recess and reversed pump direction for a couple of turns to lube the gears, then turned the pump in the correct ( anti-clockwise ) direction to no avail then the problem is in the pan/pickup/pump area.

Jac Mac

 

[Gordon Levy]

Not trying to be an ass, but did you put oil in it?

 

[Randy V]

My first thought is that it is probably related to the oil pick up pipe in the sump, if the engine has sat around in the shop for a while, probably been moved a few times, the oil pick up pipe has either been mis assembled or damaged, and that an air leak has occured above oil level line in the sump. I would be doing a quick sump off check before going much further. Frank

I've seen people leave the oil pump pickup tube off the pump altogether or not have it seated properly - thereby sucking air..

Quick way to check is to add 4 quarts of cheap oil to the crankcase which will raise the level of the oil to the point of submerging the pump...

BUT

Even if that works - you still have to pull the pan to effect repairs...

 

[Peter Olliviere]

Gordon,
Your comment is a good one, sometimes it's the obvious things that get missed but in this case, seven quarts of the stuff went in and one additional in the filter. I should also mention the quart that has ended up on the garage floor with all this messing around trying to prime the D** thing.

Anyway I have waved the white flag of submission, this problem will sit as I sit in Hawaii. I had wanted to get the motor started before I went on vacation but that will not happen. When I return the car goes to my friends shop to drop the pan, ( I just don't feel like laying on my back to do it, easier on a lift.) I suspect a problem with the pickup or pump itself and will get it resolved with the pan off.

Thanks to all those that gave input, when the pan comes down I will have a new pump and pickup on hand just in case.

Peter

 

[Jim]

Are you sure you put the gasket on in between the pump and the block? I would just pull the pan and check. It's not that hard and you can check everything when it's off including pan to pickup clearance.

 

[Peter Olliviere]

Mystery solved, no pickup equals no oil pressure!!!!!

When I returned from Hawaii I had RF80 put on a lift at a friends shop. The intention was to drop the pan and inspect the oil pump but with the new lower engine position removing the pan requires lifting the motor slightly. To save some of that effort it was decided to first use a pressure system to prime the pump. I have a friend who owns a machine shop doing engine rebuilds, he suggested this direction before tearing into the engine.

The result was, pressure was built up but with the pump turning only reached 10 LBS and when left alone would drop to zero. His suggestion was to inspect all oil plugs because if one was left out you would not be able to build any pressure. Three of these plugs are located behind the timing cover, so off came the belts and all front dressing to inpect those plugs. Net result was that all plugs were inplace but while looking at the plugs you can see the front of the oil pump. It took all of 1 nano second to see that no pickup was installed. I hang my head in shame because this was my fault and I know how it happened.

When the motor was shipped to me I told the builder to put on a junK oil pan because I was going to install a Canton unit. Not knowing if I was also installing a special pickup he left that off the pump. When i got around to installing the pan I was holding in my mind that I was using the stock pickup and just did not notice that no pickup was installed. I installed the pan and moved on to other things.

Anyway, pickup going in today, put the front of the motor back togeather, download program to Motec and go for start. Lets hope I did not do anything else stupid.

Peter

 

[Dean Lampe]

Thats really pretty good news. I am glad you found the problem. That is one that none of us mentioned.

 

[Randy V]

Glad to hear problem solved...

Thats really pretty good news. I am glad you found the problem. That is one that none of us mentioned.

Ummm:

I've seen people leave the oil pump pickup tube off the pump altogether or not have it seated properly - thereby sucking air..

Quick way to check is to add 4 quarts of cheap oil to the crankcase which will raise the level of the oil to the point of submerging the pump...

BUT

Even if that works - you still have to pull the pan to effect repairs...

Gotcha!

 

[Peter Olliviere]

Big Foot,
Sorry i forgot to say that you do win the grand prize for guessing the problem.

Seven Quarts of used oil is on it"s way to you, enjoy.

Peter

 

[Randy V]

Big Foot,
Sorry i forgot to say that you do win the grand prize for guessing the problem.

Seven Quarts of used oil is on it"s way to you, enjoy.

Peter

I prefer Synthetic .... rockonsmile epper: epper: rockonsmile

 

[Howard Jones]

I am not clear yet. Are you going to use the stock pickup with that Cannon pan? I am sure that Cannon has a modified pickup that goes with that pan. (I have the same setup).

If I missed this, sorry, I would hate to read you took out a brand new engine because of the wrong pickup.

Howard.

 

[Peter Olliviere]

Howard,
RF80 is a hard mistress that has shown me how dumb I can be every step of the way. Yes the Canton requires a special pickup, that part is now on it's way and should arrive Friday.

We did try to fit the stock pickup that I got and quickly found out that it will not fit into the Canton pan. I called Cantons tech line who gave me the correct part number and even suggested a local shop that should have it in stock. NOT!! By the time I found that out it was too late to overnight the part for delivery today, so I should have it tomorrow.

As a side note because of lowering the engine with the Hershal modification we had to lift the motor off it"s mounts to get the pan off. Not a big deal but just more work.

Peter