oil pans - Page 2

Bill Musarra · 10-14-07, 07:02 PM

Kiwi ka,
I save articles from time to time on subjects that interest me or are just interesting. I have one from '04 that talks about converting a pan to road race setup. It is a Moroso article entitled "Oil Pans For High-G Street Cars"and they show how to convert a stock pan to road race suitability. The pan they show is for a chevy, but the process is still the same as it is a rear sump job.I don't know if Moroso still offers the conversion syuff. I would like to put the article in this post, but it is way too big(2.42mb with the pics removed). I will forward the article to any who send me their email address for their personal use. It illustrates some interesting things that need to be considered or addressed when setting up such a pan.

Bill

John · 11-02-07, 11:20 AM

Well, I received my Armando's oil pan, and attempted to install it on an extra 5.0 block I have. I had to buy a new front cover, because my original cover didn't have a oil dip stick hole, and thought I would fit up a new dip stick on the cover, and insure the pan and dipstick would clear everything prior to removing my old pan. The bolt holes on the Armando's pan don't line up with the bolt holes on the block or the front cover, so the pan is going back. To be honest, not all the holes are off, 7 on the left, and 9 on the right side are drilled wrong, 3 or 4 are correct. Also the left side pan rail overhangs the side of the block by about 3/16". I just discovered this last night, and will call Armando's when he opens today, and hopefully this situation will be rectified. John

Keith Hardy · 11-02-07, 11:52 AM

How does that kind of thing happen in this day and age.....

Sandy · 11-02-07, 12:19 PM

That is a bummer. The interesting thing is that unless it is an aluminum pan that part of the pan is made from the stock pan rails (I'm guessing). Likey the chinese cores being used are bad. That sucks in any case that you have to deal with a return.

I guess that we can concluded that oil pans are in fact a crap shoot...

I have an extra canton pan and pick if anyone needs it, starting to clear out unused stuff (pick up only). I'll get a post up soon with int.

Sandy

Mark Worthington · 11-02-07, 12:22 PM

I suspect it happens because Armando hand-fabricates each pan, and noboby's perfect. I had to oblong one bolt hole in my aluminum Armando's pan by a few thousandths.

John · 11-02-07, 12:50 PM

This is a fabricated pan, using a steel core. As posted above, probably a cheap Chinese knock off. If it were one or two holes that were off, I wouldn't be concerned about it, but 9 on one side and 7 on the other don't line up, and the pan rail over hangs the block on one side. This in its self can cause leaks, due to not having a full width of pan rail clamping force on the gasket . Additionally, one of the 5/16" holes adjacent to the front main cap was off by about 50% of the bolt diameter. I just got off the phone with Armando, and he says to send it back, although denying there is anything wrong with the pan, saying it must have been damaged in shipping. I have a Canton rear sump pan on the engine now, and the reason I wanted a front sump is I'm having some oiling issues under heavy braking using the rear sump. It's gated, baffled, etc, but it will still have a pressure loss under braking, because the oil will still flow away from the sump and pickup, and as the pickup pumps the oil out of the gated rear sump, there is nothing there to replenish it, causing a loss of pressure. A front sump doesn't have these problems.

Sandy · 11-02-07, 03:20 PM

I had better pop the Tiger Pan onto the block now to see if it is from the same batch of pan cores :-). Looks ok, but you never know as I only got it a couple of weeks ago.

Hopefully it will work out, and I can say if you are having oiling issues and have room for an Accusump they are cheep insurance if you can fit it in.

Sandy

John · 11-02-07, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy

I had better pop the Tiger Pan onto the block now to see if it is from the same batch of pan cores :-). Looks ok, but you never know as I only got it a couple of weeks ago.

Hopefully it will work out, and I can say if you are having oiling issues and have room for an Accusump they are cheep insurance if you can fit it in.

Sandy

I actually received the pan two weeks ago, so yours very well may be made from the same batch of cores that mine was. I thought about an Accusump, and I have room for it, but wanted to keep this oiling system as simple as possible.

Mike Drew · 11-02-07, 10:02 PM

FWIW, I have Aviaid pans on both my Pantera and GT-350 clone. The pan cores are indeed cheap Chinese knock-offs, and I found that a few of the holes didn't line up and needed to be treated with a rat-tail file. That said, the quality of my pans is excellent (but the newest one is over ten years old).

Armando was an employee at Aviaid, and took his knowledge of their products to his home when he opened up his own business (which he runs out of his house, I believe). He charges about $100 less for the same pan, at least as far as the Pantera pan goes. I have had the opportunity to examine the Armando and Aviaid pan side-by-side and they were absolutely dead-nuts identical to one another.

I can believe that the quality of the Armando pan might be a bit higher, i.e. better attention to detail (the skid plate on the bottom of my Aviaid pan on my GT350 isn't full-length welded, so oil gets trapped between the skid plate and the underside of the pan; somebody above said that Armando welds the whole thing to prevent this, a very nice touch).

FWIW Aviaid was the OEM supplier of the GT40 pan. If you have a standard GT40 either Aviaid (or Armando) should be able to provide exactly what you need.

Sandy · 11-03-07, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Drew

I can believe that the quality of the Armando pan might be a bit higher, i.e. better attention to detail (the skid plate on the bottom of my Aviaid pan on my GT350 isn't full-length welded, so oil gets trapped between the skid plate and the underside of the pan; somebody above said that Armando welds the whole thing to prevent this, a very nice touch).

That was me on my Aviaid pan which leaked due to poor welds and the poorly welded pickup that had welding slag and beads all over the inside of the pick up, then plated over. So that kind of Quality is BS as it could have cost an expensive motor. Could have been a bad day for someone, but none the less for what I paid for the pan from seems like just didn't care for the business. That included the $80 'custom' charge for the SVO 4 bolt cap modification to the pan which amounted to someone hammering the back of the pan. It was some weak a$$ Sh!t for what the pan cost (close to $500 when I got it). Hope they are better now for other folks, but it was not a good experience and to be honest they made is seem like hey, you got what you got, but I guess we will take a look at it. Not very customer oriented to me, again might have caught them on a bad day. The skid plate on the Aviaid was not welded to the front of the pan and when you drain the oil it collects a bunch as it rolls out of the drain plug. A mess, and a mess to clean out.

Armondo is likely working out of his house or small shop have not been to his place, but I have been to Aviaid and likely not much different except at a small industrial complex. And always been very friendly.

Let's face it you will always have something to deal with from any vendor, but what I will say it is prudent to check things before you bolt things up with gasket sealer, including filling the pan with something and making sure the thing fits and doesn't leak!

Sandy

Bobski · 11-03-07, 09:53 AM

After searching for some time, it was decided to make our own. It halds 15L, it has baffles and gates, it fits perfectly and the quality is with the best of them. The sump is for a 4.6L MOD motor going in RF134.

Big-Foot · 11-04-07, 09:21 AM

Very nice job Bobski....

My next purchase is a TIG welder..

Is there room for a windage tray?

Bobski · 11-04-07, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big-Foot

Very nice job Bobski....

My next purchase is a TIG welder..

Is there room for a windage tray?

Hey Randy,
There is plenty of room for a windage tray, and we are using the standard windage tray that comes with the 2001 Mustang Cobra motor.

Regards
Bob.

Sandy · 11-12-07, 04:15 PM

The Armondo Tiger pan bolt holes align up ok, nothing in that area that looks like a problem. The Splayed 4 bolt caps on one main does hit the pan and will have to have a bit of the hammer. Also I had to hammer down the scraper as it hits all of the 4 bolt caps. Had to do it on the other pans too, just forgot to have him leave it off. I don't think it is an engine build of you don't have to get them hammer on the pan...

Bill this is for you

Tony the Tiger Build out - a photoset on Flickr