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GT40 Tech - Engines/Induction/Exhaust Motors and engine related - right here!

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Old 3rd June 2008, 04:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
RamboLambo
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Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Ive just aquired a set of 4 x 48 DCOE carbs. I got them rather cheap so thought I might add them to the workshops shelf. But I had this idea.
I have a cross-ram manifold to suit a set of sidedrafts for a V8.
Now instead of rebuilding them and buggering around with jetting and other manner of associated things, I thought I could just add fuel injection to the said engine using the carbys as the throttle bodies only - strip out anything unnecessary in the carbs of course. I would add injector bosses to the intake runners at the right places and hey presto, electronic fuel injection!! There would be the adaption of a throttle position sensor and all other sensors on the engine. Just that with the FI running the engine, I wouldnt have to worry about overrich/lean mixtures within the rev range or other carburation setup problems (except balancing).

What do the peeps think?
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Old 3rd June 2008, 04:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Bruce
A shocking waste of a good set of carbs. Give them a home doing what they should.
Cheers
How is the progress on the projects.
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Old 3rd June 2008, 05:02 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

That'll work just fine I'm sure and is something I've been looking at for some time although I was looking at retaining the look of IDA but with a 'hidden' injection system below a turkey pan...

Stick a throttle position sensor on one of the carbs, add a temp sensor to a waterway and an air temp sensor in the general area of the intakes and off you go...You can time/trigger it from the dizzy or add a multi-tooth wheel to the crank front pulley perhaps.

Pending on flow requirements (size of motor) you can also rip out most of the venturi/choke tubes to give up to the full 48mm if required as you no longer rely on a drop in air pressure to draw in the fuel.

I suspect you'll find carb balancing almost a thing of the past. Our experience has shown that IR injection holds idle and smooth running more easily than webers long term. Possibly due to the fuelling being 'electronically' metered, rather than being dependant upon the miniscule amounts of air flowing through almost closed chokes at idle. (just a theory)

Finally, I guarantee you'll see better part throttle manners and noticeable improvements in fuel consumption over Webers... (Super now at $2.55 a litre over here.....)

So all in all - (do post how you get on)
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Old 3rd June 2008, 08:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
RamboLambo
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Russell, yes I know what you mean, but as I dont want to go out and purchase a huge set of emulsion tubes, jets and other metering devices, so I thought it might be a good way to go. Its not about destroying the carbs, as removing any unnecessary items as Paul said would increase a bit of airflow and the carbs could well be re-assembled as standard if necessary. Its just that electronic metering of the fuel results in optimum performance at all rev ranges - I dont want to lean out and burn a piston at the back straight of Pukekohe, nor gobble fuel and cough and spit around as one runs around town either.
I am considering recasting the manifold with injector bosses. It wouldnt be too difficult to make a 'hidden' injection look with some custom caps over wiring and fuel lines etc.
hmmm hmmm hmmm ...........
As for the projects - they are on hold as I am finishing the renovation of my old house then its up for sale, so my spare time has gone into that. I still need to get in and set up the new workshop - all very well having all this new space, but everything is still 'shelved' on the floor until I work out where stuff is going!
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Old 4th June 2008, 01:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

There's a company making a setup like that now. I saw this on the FFCobra forum earlier. looks cool.

Classic Fuel Injection from Dynatek Racing

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Old 4th June 2008, 02:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

I spoke with the Dynatek folks out at Carlisle. They have managed to hide the injectors inside the throttle bodies so that you really have to look at them closely to determine that they are not, in fact, Weber carbs.

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Old 4th June 2008, 09:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

I think your going to invest more money for something that doesn't work as well and will be a continual pain in your butt. These are race and street proven. Al
TWM Induction www.thormotorsports1.com
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Old 5th June 2008, 07:55 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Wohlstrom View Post
I think your going to invest more money for something that doesn't work as well and will be a continual pain in your butt. These are race and street proven. Al
TWM Induction www.thormotorsports1.com

Hmmm - Each to their own I guess but I'd bet that the injection hidden below Webers would work better than Webers alone and once setup I cannot see why it would be a continual pain either... None of the injection systems I have configured thus far have proven to be a continual problem to their owners - far from it. (more like 'fit-n-forget')

If comparing with the Thormotorsports products you list, well that is possibly a different matter in that they are designed with injection in mind and I'm sure perform very well indeed. As do Kinsler, Jenvey and a bunch of other well designed products.

HOWEVER - none of them have 'the look' and 'WOW Factor' of genuine Webers sitting atop an engine and without ANY additional wiring, injectors, fuel rails etc showing it would remain looking superb...

Just my 2c worth - I love injection however its done....
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Old 5th June 2008, 05:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Id like to have a look in the barrel of those Dynatek ones to see how they have mounted the injector. Another idea would be to mount an injector in the fuel bowl or similar and use the existing spray bar.
All good thoughts for stirring the imagination and tinkering in the workshop!!
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Old 5th June 2008, 06:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Wink Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Al, why in your 58mm model do you not make a TB that is similar in appearance to a 58mm Weber, or in the 48mm version the same as an IDA. In the Replica market its 90% the look factor that sells, eg; Halibrands-Webers-180 exhausts etc.
If someone builds a GT40 replica with 15" Nascar Rims, 4bbl Rochester,& Cast Iron Exhausts they would get laughed out of the building. Fit the Halibrands-Webers-180 exh and the same people would be all over the car.
While your setup 'as is' is OK, it does not 'float my boat'----package it as a 58mm Weber look-a-like and retain all the attributes of the electronic injection and you would have a winner, Would I buy it, nah- but I think a few of the other punters on this forum would, or should
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Old 5th June 2008, 08:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jac mac View Post
Al, why in your 58mm model do you not make a TB that is similar in appearance to a 58mm Weber, or in the 48mm version the same as an IDA. In the Replica market its 90% the look factor that sells, eg; Halibrands-Webers-180 exhausts etc.
If someone builds a GT40 replica with 15" Nascar Rims, 4bbl Rochester,& Cast Iron Exhausts they would get laughed out of the building. Fit the Halibrands-Webers-180 exh and the same people would be all over the car.
While your setup 'as is' is OK, it does not 'float my boat'----package it as a 58mm Weber look-a-like and retain all the attributes of the electronic injection and you would have a winner, Would I buy it, nah- but I think a few of the other punters on this forum would, or should
Gary Polled the owner of TWM and designer of the throttle bodies was one of the first people to import Webers into the USA for racing (TWM "The Weber Man"). He also invented the SK carb. At the time that he made the throttle body, he was not thinking of the replica market, he was looking to the future. As for WOW factor, the throttle bodies are just a different WOW, but WOW all the same!
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Old 13th June 2008, 10:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Here's another look at the TWM setup using their 'Nostalgia Look' Weber-style velocity stacks. They use tall stacks in a brushed aluminum and have a very 1960's look - no polishing here! I installed them on SPF P/2192.
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Old 16th June 2008, 11:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Kim, That's a sweet looking car! I really like the unpolished look as well!
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Old 17th June 2008, 10:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Weber Carbs for fuel injection?

Thanks, Al! The car has just been road tested for an article in Car & Driver. I give some of the details in the Superformance forum.
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