Electric oil pump for dry sump?

[John Fitzpatrick]

I vaguely remember reading that some motorcycles (Harley?) use electric oil pumps for both scavenge and pressure, and if that's right, is that a possibility for a dry-sump SBF system?

[JohnC]

John, I'm working on such a system now for my Lexus V8. It's not a full dry sump, but I'm experimenting with an electric motor driven pressure pump. If it's successful on the pressure side only, I'll extend it to the scavenge pumps as well for a full dry sump project I'm also working on.

We'll be going on the engine dyno later this summer with the Lexus motor, and I intend to datalog the oil pressure, oil flow, and kW required for the oil pump.

The nice thing about variable speed drives are that you can give the engine as much or as little oil as it needs, and not have to bypass 2/3 of it, as the normal oil pump does. Too, you have a built in pre & post lube system with the electric drive, so no worries about starting up or shutting down on dry bearings.

All large industrial engines and turbines have pre/post lube systems to keep their bearings lubed, and their shafts floating, so why not high performance automotive engines?

[Paul Thompson 'Hooligan']

I'm sure I read that BMW M5s have electric oil pumps on a dry sump system.

I think it was the earlier V8 but it may have been the V10 also.

Will make an interesting read when you post your results, I look forward to it.

[Garry]

Me too! +1.
Garry

[Doug Sainlar]

I've heard that the new administration's recently revised fuel economy requirements will necessitate manufacturers redesigning the drive systems for some things like power steering pumps, water pumps, and A/C pumps so that they are electrically driven rather than mechanically driven.

If there are no current technologies addressing your question, Fitz, I'd speculate that there will soon be. I for one like the idea of electrically powered pumps, seems like a no-brainer to me , but it will most assuredly more heavily tax the electrical generation/storage capacities of our current technologies.

One of our forum members has used an intercooler pump from a Ford Lighning to provide hot water for the heating system for his 40.....at the time I thought it was incredibly creative, now I suspect those sorts of things will become more common.

Doug

[John Fitzpatrick]

I did a little Googling and found this outfit Electric Oil Feed and Scavenge Pumps

They might have a pump that would be applicable to your project John. A 200 mph Bonneville Nationals bike is a pretty impressive endorsement.

[JohnC]

Those guys are.....strange.

I ordered a methanol injection system from them nearly two years ago - and I'm still waiting for it.....

Their prelube system is loosely based on the one from Pre-Luber Products

They certainly have an interesting website, but I wonder how serious they are about business. Talking to them on the phone is like a trip back to the 60's, and it's a real trip....

[John Fitzpatrick]

Hmmm, that's a shame. I should have checked out the site a bit closer. Missed the Eat sh*t and die! button at the bottom of the page.

Please post your results though- the concept seems reasonable in spite of the stoners.
One question- and not knowing all the factors you're using to set the pressure pump rpm- does eliminating the bypass completely leave you enough margin to handle spikes in demand?

[Jack Houpe]

Sure would draw a lot of current to create that flow and psi, I think the charging system size increase would eliminate any positive attributes to having one. Might as well be a belt or gear driven.

[JohnC]

No doubt the current draw will be right up there, depending on the flow requirement and the pressure the pump has to produce, however, being an optimist about things like this, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the flow vs pressure curve through the motor, and am anticipating the real power requirement to be 1/2 HP or less. We'll see in a month or two.

The advantage is having control over how much oil is delivered, without wasting power as with the normal relief/regulator system. That, and of course, having the ability to pre/post lube.

I think this electric driven oil pump is just another step along the evolutionary path of upgrading the automotive engine, just as electronic ignition, EFI, electric radiator fans, and electric coolant pumps were. It's certainly not for those who are trying to keep their engines "correct" for the period.

[Ian Anderson]

Info on the BMW system

http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...ine/index.html

Ian

[CRASH33]

Something that you guys are not talking about, but that is a major benefit with electric driven accessories, is the fact that the accessory can continue to run off the supply of the battery while getting maximum HP out of the engine. In other words ALL loads other than the drive train can be esentially removed from the engine load at WOT thereby giving you an extra 10-50 HP. This, of course, is done by making everything possible electric and then turning off the alternator at WOT and letting the battery carry the load for just a bit of time. Then when there is excess HP available the charging system comes back in.

[petr]

is there as much as a bearing heaven?