Best roller rockers and mounts ?

[flatchat(Chris)]

-- Cruising the by ways the other day, gathering some mileage on the fresh SBF then suddenly a loud clattering noise like we'd dropped a rod-- "now WTF" --regroup for a mo--I know that noise --a rocker has broke or something --so off comes the RH tappet cover ('cause it was easiest to get at) to reveal what was suspected, #3 ex't rocker had dismounted --pedestal stud POS had broke off at the lock nut --so after a few more expletives to clear the mind, improvised a quick repair to get home. ( usually carry some studs, in case, but not today--actually lucky to have some spanners and that)

They are Edelbrock ally no brainer heads that came with rocker studs - so, assumed they'd be of reasonable quality --light springs still and the rockers are some suspect red anodised ally roller tip type.

Question is --what are we (engine pros) using as the most reliable rocker and mount hardware

 

[Mike Trusty]

T & D shaft rockers

www.tdmach.com

 

[Doc Kaler]

T&D are very good (used a set in my Viper) and I'm using Jesels in my LS7.

 

[colin artus]

Yella Terra seem to have a good rep and they are sort of local too.

 

[Brian Kissel]

I have used both T&D's and Jesels, with zero problems. My new engine will be wearing Jesels.

 

[Wally]

I would be checking pushrod length and slot clearance on the rockers. I had a motor together that did a similar thing and found that the parts the shop had sold Me were no compatible with the cam lift I had. The pushrods were to long and the rocker were binding on the Polylocks as the generics were .06 larger then the ones specified for the rocker and would bind them at full valve lift. These were Gold rockers and the ends of the slot s were now silver on most. Shorter pushrods and New correct Polylock, No more problems.

 

[Jac Mac]

Dont be too tough on the bits that broke, quite likely that they were the ones getting the crap hammered out of them while you were driving around with stuffed cam lobes etc recently...lots of free play in the valve train creates huge shock loads.

You should be able to get a 'paired' shaft setup from YT to suit your combo, that means you wont need guideplates - studs - posilocks. YT info site is a bit tricky to navigate, BUT you must get the absolute correct version for the cyl heads you have....AND you might need to get a set of pushrods to match them... Fit the rockers to the head without a pushrod to check the rocker to stem tip pattern thru whatever valve lift you run, shim rocker pad to correct if necessary.... Then use an adjustable checking pushrod to decide what length pushrod you require..... funny part as you will find out..you can buy the YT stuff ex USA for about 2/3 the Aussie price...... BTW, Greg who now looks after the TVR motor has just fitted a set of these, he could not get to grips with the old single stud posilock YT setup which had been trouble free for seven or eight seasons so now with tappet adjustment akin to a 105e Anglia he should be right at home!

-- Cruising the by ways the other day, gathering some mileage on the fresh SBF then suddenly a loud clattering noise like we'd dropped a rod-- "now WTF" --regroup for a mo--I know that noise --a rocker has broke or something --so off comes the RH tappet cover ('cause it was easiest to get at) to reveal what was suspected, #3 ex't rocker had dismounted --pedestal stud POS had broke off at the lock nut --so after a few more expletives to clear the mind, improvised a quick repair to get home. ( usually carry some studs, in case, but not today--actually lucky to have some spanners and that)

They are Edelbrock ally no brainer heads that came with rocker studs - so, assumed they'd be of reasonable quality --light springs still and the rockers are some suspect red anodised ally roller tip type.

Question is --what are we (engine pros) using as the most reliable rocker and mount hardware

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

I like the look of T & D and Jesels they seem to be engineered for the rough stuff . The Yella Terra shafters I wondered about --they are a logical design, however we did have a shaft failure in a TR7 V8 (4.5L Rover) during Targa Tas. 2002 which makes me nervous --maybe design and quality has changed since then.
There's a lot in the market to choose from

 

[Kevin Box]

Chris


If you are ok sticking with individual rockers, I can recommend Crane Enduros on 7/16 studs. I usually use a stud girdle also to give the rockers and studs better stabiliy.
Interesting to note that that Yellow Terra and Crane enduro are the only rockers that run 11/16 trunnion bearings.

I certainly go along with getting your valve geometry correct. The best way I have to do this is to get an old push rod and cut a fair chunk out of the middle so you can insert a threaded section. Then adjust the length so you get the roller tip travelling equally either side of the centre of the valve stem.
(this is a good use for Chevy push rods which are normally available form your local supermarket !!!).
I have some pictures showing this in detail which I will try to dig out.
In the mean time you can have a look at the pictures of the valve train of one of my jet boat engines which will give you a good idea. The cam used here was 238 deg @050 and .580 lift.


cheers
KevinB

 

[Jac Mac]

The TR7/Rover would be a totally different animal to the paired rockers for a Ford/Chev/Holden...on the TR7 Rover I think they would have been on one long shaft, possibly with bushs/not needle rollers & relied on oil up thru the block rather than from the lifters...

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Everything checks out OK, tappet roller is dead in the middle of the valve stem etc da da dah --haven't fully checked the fulcrum bearings yet which maybe the problem or just plain metal fatigue of the stud / heat treat fracture or just dirty stinkin' rotten bad luck.
Not a fan of needle rollers in these things either --prone to hobbing of the shaft --bit like Jag rear suspension control arms .

Jac, the TR7 rockers were shaft mounted and it was the shaft that broke on the end ones as the hold down bolts are between the rockers and left the end ones unsupported on this particular set up (not my car) from memory

 

[Cliff Beer]

Here's a dumb question from me.....

I understand the logic and need of checking the geometry of the rocker - particularly the contact pattern of the rocker tip to valve stem (should be centered generally, and motion across the valve stem (the "contact patch") should be approximately equal to the center line for both closed and full open. I get that.

Here's my dumb question. Is there a spec for clearance? I'm accustomed to setting valves on alfas, triumph/mg, porsche, etc. and there's always a clearance spec...

Thanks.

 

[Mike Huddart]

Honestly can't see why anybody running a budget motor with Edelbrock heads would need something like a T & D or Jesel kit or even Crane Enduros for that matter, considering that most of those will cost considerably more than the heads themselves !

Fully endorse changing to 7/16 studs if you change the rockers, probly don't need them but at the same cost as 3/8, a no brainer.

Also don't just presume that as you have the Edelbrock heads that the parts fitted are decent quality, we had a batch of Ede heads some years ago that broke studs on every set. They claimed they were ARP but they were not, we changed the studs to ARP and had no more problems. Similaly, we fitted a pair of their E-Street heads recently and a stud brake on the customers way home. We fitted ARPs and the motor has run fine ever since, including several overrevs at the drag strip !

If you have those red rockers with no brand name on them then they will almost certainly be Chinese, Pro-Comp or similar. Most likely they will be 1.6 Chevys sold under a differant part number, even though the geometry looks OK they do strange things when in use, including breaking studs. Something to think about.

Mike

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

Thanks Mike, thats the feed back I was after (they are indeed E street heads , the studs are 7/16"NC into the head and 3/8" NF for the fulcrum and the rockers came from Procomp PSP )

A set of ARP studs and a reputable brand of rocker should solve the problem:thumbsup:

Now we know what not to use

Cliff, these are hydraulic flat tappets that were set to the recommended procedure.
The flat tappet solids need to be set with a clearence

 

[Randy V]

Got to be careful in selecting shaft rockers - if the valve stem offset is wrong for the rocker arm location, you'll have to have offset rocker arms machined.. Just found this out the hard way on a set of Dart Heads that have a .170" additional offset. The rocker arm would not engage the valve stem correctly.

I primarily use 7/16" (top to bottom) studs on all heads and then add a stud girdle if the open pressure exceeds 300#.

 

[Mike Drew]

Here's something else to consider--excessive valve lift.

I drove across Europe in a Pantera that kept breaking rocker arms, bending pushrods etc. Eventually the owner discovered that when the heads were machined for the valvetrain, they failed to account for the lift that his cam was delivering. The cam would push up on the pushrod, which in turn pushed on one end of the rocker arm, depressing the other end to open the valve.

The problem was that the valve spring was fully compressing (coil binding) while the cam was still pushing the pushrod up!

Once the spring was fully compressed, the additional movement was resolved by bending of the rocker arm, stretching of the rocker arm stud, bending of the pushrod, etc. etc.

He fixed it by having the spring seats machined a bit further so the springs had further to travel.

So, check your geometry--not only for rocker arm centered on the valve, but also for spring compression at full lift. You should be able to slide a slip of paper (at least) between the coils of the spring when the valve is fully opened. If not, you're never going to fix it by simply changing studs or rocker arms.

Just one more thing to look at....

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

"Further"
Just when I'm thinking this no brainer 295 rwhp sbf is a bit of fun- the inevitable happens a broke damper spring and bent exhaust valve :furious: Grrrr!.

My advice so far:-
in using Edelbrock E street heads, and their advice per instruction sheet has been spot on so far "do not rev past 5500 it will cause damage!" (might have nudged 5999.00 couple times)
is -I think the castings are OK but immediately swap out valves, springs, studs etc for some reputable quality items if you seek reliability.
In the long run would have been better off building an all OEM Ford / crate parts motor.
It seems as tho the E street and Pro comp heads are one and the same

 

[flatchat(Chris)]

More dramas --- (probably should have started another thread )
Race weekend -- do a few checks --start 'er up and rattly tappets a bit more than normal along with low oil pressure --tappets pump up --give it a bit of a rev and the pressure comes up a bit then drops off --shut 'er down, FFS !:cussing: -- (I know whats happened)--
Roll onto the hoist , pull the oil filter , all good , drain the oil , all good , pull the sump pan off and as was suspected -- a mostly dismounted POS oil pick up pipe
less than 6 months old.
Is there a better type of oil pick up for Windsors ??

 

[John]

Chris,

You might try a stud girdle to lock everything down - I had a similar problem!

John
:thumbsup:

 

[colin artus]

Braze it at both pipe junctions and add a gusset between the mounting flange and the pickup head.