GT40s.com
MK-I  MK-II  MK-III  MK-IV  GULF  MIRAGE  J-CAR  LOLA
GT40s.com
Home Forum Gallery Support GT40s.com  
Register FAQ Advertisers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   GT40s.com > GT40 Technical Forums > GT40 Tech - Engines/Induction/Exhaust


GT40 Tech - Engines/Induction/Exhaust Motors and engine related - right here!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11th December 2011, 07:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
Cliffbeer2
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sand Point, WA
Posts: 2,335
Got nitrous?

I saw an old episode of Top Gear and there was a tired old Jag XJS which was fitted with nitrous. Of course, in a drag race it blasted by all the other supercars - all very entertaining. That got me to thinking why is it that nitrous isn't installed as a supplemental power booster for occasional use in production supercars? Too much bang in the cylinder for normal warranties? Emissions disaster? Could an OEM system become part of the original spec of a supercar? Or is it simply too hard on the engine (or too difficult to arrange supplier relationships for the NOS itself)?

Does anyone have nitrous on their GT40??

Hhhhmmmm....
Cliffbeer2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2011, 11:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
Cliffbeer2
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sand Point, WA
Posts: 2,335
Re: Got nitrous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
I saw an old episode of Top Gear and there was a tired old Jag XJS which was fitted with nitrous. Of course, in a drag race it blasted by all the other supercars - all very entertaining. That got me to thinking why is it that nitrous isn't installed as a supplemental power booster for occasional use in production supercars? Too much bang in the cylinder for normal warranties? Emissions disaster? Could an OEM system become part of the original spec of a supercar? Or is it simply too hard on the engine (or too difficult to arrange supplier relationships for the NOS itself)?

Does anyone have nitrous on their GT40??

Hhhhmmmm....
The Top Gear blurb here: Nitrous oxide Jaguar XJS - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube
Cliffbeer2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2011, 09:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
p thompson's Avatar
p thompson
Administrator
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Guildford
GT40: None
Posts: 2,754
Re: Got nitrous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
I saw an old episode of Top Gear and there was a tired old Jag XJS which was fitted with nitrous. Of course, in a drag race it blasted by all the other supercars - all very entertaining. That got me to thinking why is it that nitrous isn't installed as a supplemental power booster for occasional use in production supercars? Too much bang in the cylinder for normal warranties? Emissions disaster? Could an OEM system become part of the original spec of a supercar? Or is it simply too hard on the engine (or too difficult to arrange supplier relationships for the NOS itself)?

Does anyone have nitrous on their GT40??

Hhhhmmmm....
COST! and compliance regulations I suspect for the fitment thereof.

Nitrous is cool though, cheapest HP per buck available and works safely on any engine combination when used in 'moderation'.

Of course, 99% of those who have not experienced it will call it 'cheating'.
__________________
regards
Paul Thompson
-----------------------------------------
Too Many Hobbies
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Too Little Time
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
p thompson is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2011, 09:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
IanAnderson's Avatar
IanAnderson
Lifetime Premier Supporter
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Ashford
GT40: Dax 40 Mk1 (Rov
Posts: 3,418
Re: Got nitrous?

What sort of sized nitros bottle are you going to use for the Le Mans 24hr?

Cheating - yes

Ian
__________________
DAX GT40. Morgan 3.9 EFi, Worked by John Eales.
Renault Box, Always makes me smile!
IanAnderson is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2011, 09:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
p thompson's Avatar
p thompson
Administrator
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Guildford
GT40: None
Posts: 2,754
Re: Got nitrous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
a supplemental power booster for occasional use in production supercars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanAnderson View Post
What sort of sized nitros bottle are you going to use for the Le Mans 24hr?

Cheating - yes

Ian
I don't think the suggestion was for a 24hr event and how many 40's compete at 24hr events now?

Horses for courses Ian - N02 makes a great easy power adder to existing engine technology for occasional use. Overtakes? Hillclimbs? (mostly not legal at MSA events) track days? Drags?

Cheating? - NO... just a different tool.....

A blower and NO2 helped a Nadine push her 'ROAD LEGAL' - Viper GTS to a 9s quarter mile run and a standing mile at over 200MPH... No mean feat!!

It also allowed wooden Mosquitos to deal with FW190s and evade chasing aircraft during WWII...
__________________
regards
Paul Thompson
-----------------------------------------
Too Many Hobbies
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Too Little Time
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
p thompson is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 04:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
Cliffbeer2
I Have No Life
United States
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sand Point, WA
Posts: 2,335
Re: Got nitrous?

Cool beans guys. So long as it doesn't melt the piston top in a matter of minutes, why not use it for occasional bursts of power? Is there any such thing as a full throttle switch system that introduces NOS in a controlled manner? That seems like a logical arrangement.

After all, if NOS will give you an extra 100hp (or more) on demand, but you don't have to drive around the other 99.9% of the time with the parasitic drain of a blower or turbo (or have a larger displacement engine) then why not?

I'm probably missing something......
Cliffbeer2 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 05:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
fastdruid
8 Tenths
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
GT40: GT-Forte
Posts: 887
Re: Got nitrous?

The power boost is addictive, bottles don't last long and are quite expensive to fill?

I'm tempted!
__________________
http://fastdruid.co.uk/gt40/ (updated 31/07/2014)
fastdruid is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 05:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
p thompson's Avatar
p thompson
Administrator
United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Guildford
GT40: None
Posts: 2,754
Re: Got nitrous?

There are many methods of delivering the power enhancement of NOS for an automotive application and how well, reliable, drivable the vehicle ends up will depend upon how well the installation is thought through and implemented.

Adding 100HP is not a problem but how well your tyres, transmission etc will cope with the extra power will vary. Also - longevity of the motor will depend upon being realistic with your expectations. Trying to stick 100HP on a well built small block is not likely to present any problems but adding it to a tired, over-the-hill motor that is built from lower spec components will likely make it short lived. A motor built with quality billet parts and forged pistons etc will allow a greater headroom for power adding.

In terms of use - well you can reckon on just under 1LB of NO2 used per 100HP / 10 seconds. SO - a 10LB bottle will give 100HP for 100 seconds - yes? - well no, because as you use it up, the bottle pressure will eventually start to drop and the resulting mixture will become FAT or rich so you will never properly empty a bottle during normal use. Bear in mind the size of the bottle too, a 10LB bottle is about the size of a 12L diving tank, so not exactly small.

TIMING is ALL important and it should be retarded for the hit of NOS, with a general rule of thumb being 1.5-2 degrees per 50HP added. So a 100HP hit would require a 4 degree retard too. Colder plugs may well be required too to cope with the increased cylinder temps so be prepared to fit them.

Also - consider how the power delivery is required. A friend of mine added a 150hp shot of NOS to his 350ci Chevy and whilst the motor easily held the power, as an 'instant hit', the tyres would not and despite being slicks, they lit up every time the system fired. In these instances, a small power controller can be added to ramp up the power, so that for example, the initial hit is 25hp, or 40hp which then ramps up to the max required over a period of time that allows the tyres to cope, say a second perhaps. This time will vary depending on weather conditions, road/track surface adhesion (grip) etc etc and only experience will allow you to dial that in .

Yes, the system can be activated by a switch at full throttle, in fact it should only be allowed to fire when the throttle is fully open as that is when max power would be required. It may also be prudent to avoid activating it below certain rpm levels, so as not to load things up too much by expecting too much too early.

Again, another friend has a blown motor, to which initially 100HP was added. When the NOS fired, the measured torque on the dyno jumped to over 850ft lbs at 3000rpm!! One advantage of NOS on a blown motor is the cooling effect, which will generally give an even greater HP advantage over the normal calculated/expected increase.

One pitfall is chasing times/performance and any system should be used to a pre-determined limit/level. The temptation to 'turn it up' is ever there but just remember how much you are asking of your motor and keep it sensible.

All of this really only breaks the surface of NOS (NO2) and in reality, anyone thinking of installing such a system needs to carefully consider ALL consequences / requirements and if unsure at all, either don't, or go to a professional tuner/shop that has a good reputation for such installs.

Do also consider the legal / insurance requirements for such installs too if you are intending to use them on the road.
__________________
regards
Paul Thompson
-----------------------------------------
Too Many Hobbies
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Too Little Time
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
p thompson is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 18th December 2011, 06:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
Ron Earp's Avatar
Ron Earp
Administrator
United States
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: NC, USA
GT40: None.
Posts: 6,618
Re: Got nitrous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffbeer2 View Post
but you don't have to drive around the other 99.9% of the time with the parasitic drain of a blower or turbo (or have a larger displacement engine) then why not?
But you don't have to drive around with the parasitic drain of blowers or turbochargers. Well, not anymore you don't, unless you want to.

You might be thinking of the old style roots blowers mounted on drag cars that had no bypass or recirculation. Modern Eaton, Lysholm screw (some Eatons are like this), Whipple, etc. blowers all have bypasses that are electronically or vacuum operated. These allow the blowers to freewheel and not produce any manifold pressure and thus very, very little drag while cruising down the road. You get the best of both worlds, a very minimal engine drag when not in use an with these positive displacement blowers an instant shove in the back when the hammer goes down.

Eaton Automotive Supercharger FAQ
Q: What is this black plastic object on the side of my supercharger? What is a bypass valve?
A: That object is the bypass valve vacuum actuator. This unit has a vacuum port that connects to the supercharger inlet between the rotors and throttle body. This actuator opens and closes a bypass valve for the supercharger. This valve is open when throttle loads are low and closed when throttle loads are high. With the bypass valve open there is no pressure being created across the supercharger. This allows the supercharger to have an almost negligible parasitic loss in this condition. With the bypass valve closed, all airflow is routed through the supercharger and boost is created in the intake manifold. In some newer applications this actuator is also controlled by a solenoid.




Not many downsides to supercharging. Most major manufacturers have used it in one form or another - Ford, GM, Mercedes, Audi/VW, Toyota, Nissan, come to mind. BMW hasn't used supercharging (unless you count the Mini), but you know it took them about 30 years before they'd try turbocharging again, after years of indicating their superior engineering negated the need for turbocharging. Yeah. I don't think Porsche has used it either have they?
__________________
Ron Earp

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Ron Earp is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiTweet this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nitrous for Webers? JCoop GT40 Tech - Fueling, Electrics, & Engine Cooling 2 8th February 2008 08:41 AM
Nitrous ? Mark McCaughran All GT40 8 26th February 2002 09:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 AM.