Plug and play SBF injection system?

[Cliff Beer]

I'm trying to plan out some fueling for a 331 SBF I'm planning on putting in an '88 Lotus Esprit. My fuel injection experience is limited to Bosch fuel systems of the 80's and 90's common on porsche, mercedes, etc, so I know little-to-nothing about FI for a SBF.

My question is...with the advancements in FI tech in the aftermarket, are there any really good plug-n-play 8 stack FI systems for a SBF? In other words, bolt on the inlet manifold, the stacks, the fuel rail, mount the crank sensor, et voila, super smooth running and powerful FI system.....

I'm guessing it's not going to be that easy....not nearly that easy. But, if there's a decent system with modest smarts necessary for the installation then I would be very interested. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Terry Oxandale]

I used the Holley HP EFI system (self learning) to manage the LS2, but I believe they provide a Ford system as well. Mine wasn't plug and play, but once this "old school" did some reading and talking with their tech, I finally "got it". Very versatile, and infinitely adjustable. There are probably easier systems out there, but this was cheaper cost-wise than the others that I'd looked at.

 

[Bill Musarra]

Take a look at the FAST setup. Mine is too old and before they came out with the EZ unit. They give you as stated above , but include the fuel maps sufficient to get it cranked. It will run sorta rough at first and starts to smooth out once on the road. After about a month or so you will need to do a final tune to get the last little bit done. Shoould be able to run on your laptop to make any changes from then on.
Electronic Fuel Injection Leader - FAST® - Fuel Air Spark Technology Fuelairspark.com
Look in the products section. Give them a call and ask for Mat Mathews(if he is still there) at ext. 1496. He was one of their top guys and has many connections in the business.

Bill

 

[Ron Earp]

Megasquirt has a plug and play ECU for the EEC-IV 5L. Looks good for those that want to use the pushrod Ford SB. Open source too, lots of forum support. MS is quite popular for the DIY crowd. My friends that have tried various ECUs (Motec, FAST, Helltec, Notec, Accel, Wolf) have ended up loving MS.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Thanks guys, that's a good start....will be doing some googling and researching the above mentioned systems and try to do a little comparing.

I guess the market isn't that big for this stuff...not like buying a four barrel Holley or some headers or something simple like that. So I suppose it's not surprising there aren't a bunch of easy set-up and inexpensive systems....which are dead simple. Ah well, it's a good learning exercise.

Thanks again, I'll report back as I make some progress.

 

[Robert May Eng.]

Hilborn offer a complete set up with ecu for the 302 but its seems over priced to me. Hilborn Fuel Injectors

These stacks turn up on ebay every now and then for a fraction of the new price. I have used the emerald ecu which comes with a base map if you need it, the same company can supply the rest of the bits like trigger wheel ,wiring looms etc . It also gives you the chance to junk the distributor and go wasted spark. I think I had change out of £2k for my whole set up inc the injectors.

Home of the Emerald K6 aftermarket standalone ECU

Bob

 

[Robert May Eng.]

I forgot to add this.

I found this seller a few weeks ago who has these tb`s and he will knock off 40$ for a two sets which is basically the price of one throttle pot thats not needed . Individual Throttle Body itb Kit 48mm and 50mm TPS | eBay So $840 for the eight throttle bodies.

Bob

 

[Scott Calabro]

So I suppose it's not surprising there aren't a bunch of easy set-up and inexpensive systems....which are dead simple.

Not until a MAF controlled 8 stack system is built, but don't hold your breath.

 

[Cliff Beer]

Thank you Robert, I'll check out the Hillborn offering. I guess with their legacy history in the space they have some brand recognition to extract a little higher price out of the market place.

Scott, yup, that would be nice. Given the absence of a MAF I guess all these systems are really just passive/pre-programmed systems working off of a AFR map (or maps)...which can be tweaked to a particular application of course. I've heard there's some "learning" which goes on with some however....how does that "learning" work?? Is the software comparing the map settings v. the O2 readings at the tailpipe and adjusting a bit up/down or ??

Incidentally, on ebay a while back I saw a Chinese made SBF manifold and TBs with ports for the injectors...looked OK but I'm suspicious of the quality and not so inclined to scrimp on this build too much. Anybody have any experience with that hardware?

Thanks again gents.

 

[Dr. Bob Woods]

Cliff,

My understanding is that the Chinese system is very low cost, but is of even lower quality. Several people reported that the build quality was really poor and that they had to do more machining before they could even use it. I would steer completely clear of that one (even if they are still in business).

I am using the Borla 8-Stack manifold and throttles (previously TWM). Although I haven't run the engine yet, I am very pleased with the quality and system configuration.
https://www.borlainduction.com/

Inglese makes a very similar unit but is more expensive.
Inglese

There is a company called Eight Stack that makes an EFI system that looks like Weber carburetors with the injectors hidden inside the "carburetor". This would give you the original look of carburetors with the convenience of EFI.
Eight Stack Injection- 289 302 347 Systems

The reason that I selected the Borla is that they have the injectors on the side of the throttles that is closer to the center of the engine. This means that the fuel is injected outward and directly down the intake runner. The Chinese system had the injectors on the outside of the throttles and hence the fuel was injected into the runner wall. The Eight Stack system has the injectors inside the "carburetors" and I think they inject fore and aft and hence also inject into a wall.

I am using the Performance Electronics PE3 controller unit. We have used this system for several years on our Formula SAE racecars with great success. The factory support is absolutely great. It is plug-and-play, has peak-and-hold drivers for either low-impedance or saturated injectors, has closed-loop control with adaptive learning, and has many other desirable features. They are partnered with Eight Stack and have done several GT40 and small block Fords and can provide initial maps.
http://www.pe-ltd.com/joomla/images/downloads/PE3 Series Datasheet 10-24-11.pdf

Let us know what you do.

-Bob Woods

 

[Andrew Robertson]

Cliff,

I run the 2 7/16 hilborn EFI system on my 434SBC but I only bought the hardware from them (manifold base, throttle bodies and linkages, MAF lines/manifold, fuel rails and TPS) and I went with a local ECU supplier (Link G4). I use an MSD crank trigger for accurate ignition reference and a get a sync pulse from my distributor.

The Hilborn stuff was under USD $3k all-up, works really well, and was not fussy to tune. Not plug and play but easily controlled by any decent ECU. Any tune that runs a SBF in speed density mode will be fine as a starting point.

The only downside is idle control - there basically is none. My crude proxy is a coolant temp based ignition modifier that steadily retards no-load idle timing back from 30 when cold to 15 when hot to get a reasonable steady idle from cold. Due to the large throttle plates stable idle is not available below 900rpm. Hope this is useful.

Cheers, Andrew

 

[Dave]

I used the cheap chinese 8 stack on my 5.0ltr and although it works perfectly fine it did take a bit of machining to get the manifold to fit. Was easy to balance and set up. I have a TWM set up for the 414 motor.