Build costs for high rev 331

[Claes]

I have been looking at the different engine suppliers that offer turn-key engines based on the 302. But they all seem to offer Strokers, and not many Big Bore engines. I am looking for an engine that does 7000 rpm as a minimum, and is for track use.
I came across this article, which had me wondering how much the cost would be to have an engine like that built and tested. Parts add up to 8000$ (2008 retail).

331-Inch 495 HP Small-Block Ford - Car Craft Magazine

 

[Jac Mac]

None of the 60/70's production 289/302 blocks are good for more than 4.030" bore with reliability hence not many big bore kits, BUT today with all the aftermarket blocks bores up to ~4.165" are possible so you can get close to 330 cu in with the 3.000" 302 crank or ~350 cu in with the 3.25" crank and still run to ~8000rpm with good reliability, although once you get past 7000 rpm the valve train will cost as much as the short block.

 

[Darrin]

I have been looking at the different engine suppliers that offer turn-key engines based on the 302. But they all seem to offer Strokers, and not many Big Bore engines. I am looking for an engine that does 7000 rpm as a minimum, and is for track use.
I came across this article, which had me wondering how much the cost would be to have an engine like that built and tested. Parts add up to 8000$ (2008 retail).

331-Inch 495 HP Small-Block Ford - Car Craft Magazine

I strongly suggest you consider the Alumintor 5.0, or the XS version of it. The stock Aluminator is about $7,800 delivered and carries a warranty from Ford. It will mean altering the engine bay a bit of course.

These will spin to 7000 without issue (the XS peaks about 7,600 and is known to go to 8,400 without a problem and still make great power). Many of us are going this route.

Just a thought.

 

[Claes]

I have definately considered a modern Ford. The kit itself is dimensioned for a coyote. I am not sure what the difference is between the coyote and the aluminator, but if they have the same bolt pattern and mounting points, it would be an option. They modern ones just don't look right, unless you get an 8-stack like one of the other builders from Australia has done.
The main reason to go for an old engine, is that the process of approval of the car in Sweden, is a bit tricky. You are allowed 20 bhp for every 100kg. So a car with a total weigth of 1250 kg Total Gross weight, can have 250 bhp. If you use an old block, you can use the engine number associated to whatever car it used to be in, and use that bhp. Also, if the original car didn't have a Cat, you don't need it in the build either. But should I find a way around it, and find a reasonably priced itb solution to make it look right, then I will definately go for a new engine.
Anyway, budget for the engine sits at around 10-12k $ ....at the moment

 

[Keith]

The answer is blindingly simple. You build a GT40 that weighs 2,500kgs, and then you put it on a gradual diet...

 

[David]

I've looked a the line of BLUEPRINT ENGINES from Jegs. A 331 with carb and distribitor runs ~ 6,000.00, makes ~ 375 TQ and HP. To me that should be plenty, and as of yet I've not heard anything bad about them.

 

[Darrin]

The main reason to go for an old engine, is that the process of approval of the car in Sweden, is a bit tricky. You are allowed 20 bhp for every 100kg.

Sometimes I gripe about our government here interfering with our liberty, but never in my wildest dream would I even postulate them restricting horsepower of our cars. That's just...well...wrong.

As the good Colonel suggests, perhaps a bit of extra ballast might be in order at first suddenly to be found unnecessary after the inspection process.

As for the Aluminator, it is a Coyote that has been strengthened internally and is hand built. Ford takes a Coyote apart and reworks the thing giving it much better internals. It will also dyno out higher than the stock Coyote. Believe it usually runs about 420 or so. Note that the new Coyote will make more than this though given its larger valve size and cylinder head port changes. Not sure when those will make it into the Aluminator line (Ford couldn't tell me when I called).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCOocyTmakM

 

[Claes]

Will look into Blueprint engines from Jegs. I have had a look at Proformance Unlimited, and even sent them an inquiry with the above mentioned link, to see what they could build something similar for. No reply yet. But their 363 Big bore looks interesting. 500 Hp, and 500 lbft, spinning up to 6500. Any experience with them?

The weight adding has been done before...have heard of people filling spare tyres with water and other tricks to gain weight
Have heard of cars being accepted with remapped engines, with proof from rolling road of reduced horsepower, but not sure if it is actually allowed. Still looking into the rules....

If the Aluminator is an improved version of the Coyote, how come they are so closely matched price wise.? Are they just nice guys at Ford Racing

 

[Darrin]

If the Aluminator is an improved version of the Coyote, how come they are so closely matched price wise.? Are they just nice guys at Ford Racing

I've wondered about that too, but they are what they are. It's a great value. Note that the price jumps up a lot from the standard Aluminator to the Aluminator XS though and why they are so high I can't figure given the price of the base one. Of course they make over 500HP and power takes money.

 

[Mark R]

....Anyway, budget for the engine sits at around 10-12k $ ....at the moment

Wow, you should be able to get a decent SBF built in that price range. I know sourcing Ford parts in Europe is tough, but jeesh!

My last build, used a '68 302,4V, and came in right around $6500. I am not turning the high RPMs you are looing for, but it runs pretty well. The '68 rods are pretty good with upgraded ARP bolts. Crower solid cam. I kept the Iron heads, but added a mild port, and larger valves, plus full studs, SS roller rockers and guide plates. A boss302 windage tray is still available from FMS and bolts right on. I still need to ditch my stock 'log' manifolds and plan to get HiPo or Try-Y headers because its in a '67 mustang GT350 clone project.

 

[Claes]

Well, I am a bit in the dark when it comes to the terminology of american engines, ARP this, Edelbrock that, and so on. It all sounds impressive when you read the spec sheets of the manufacturers, but in reality I have no clue if an Eagle crank is good or bad. In case I don't go for the new engines, I would try to find a trusted engine builder, and let him spec the engine for my budget and requirements. It will be mated to an Audi 01e transmission, which has it's limits, 400-500 bhp. Don't know if it can handle that much on track

 

[Jac Mac]

The other thread on this forum titled 'Killer 331' for sale sounds like its just what you need then.

 

[Darrin]

Well, I am a bit in the dark when it comes to the terminology of american engines, ARP this, Edelbrock that, and so on. It all sounds impressive when you read the spec sheets of the manufacturers, but in reality I have no clue if an Eagle crank is good or bad.

It might make sense to post to this forum once you hear back from some potential engine builders to help you understand what you are getting then. I imagine most folks here in the US at least are very familiar with the small block Ford and can help you decipher what is going to go into it.

It will be mated to an Audi 01e transmission, which has it's limits, 400-500 bhp. Don't know if it can handle that much on track

I know you aren't in the US, but you might want to talk to Scott Dewitt who is on this forum. He puts together Audi 01E transaxles that will handle more that that. I got mine from him and told him I'd be making in the 500-550 HP range. A tweak here and there and I'm pretty confident the 01E can handle it without issue. He's the guy to talk to.

 

[Darrin]

Oh, and I'd add Livernois to that list. If I were going to spend that kind of money, those are the folks I'd use. High Quality Egine Builds: Livernois Motorsports in Michigan

 

[Claes]

Thanks for the useful info. There are a lot of decisions to be made in the pre-planning stage. I have just been offered an abandoned Factory Five Challenge project at a very good price...so maybe it won't even be a GT40. :0 Although a GT40 is what i have wanted to build for a long time, so it will take some serious convincing to change my mind.
I will probably PM you Darrin, since your project is so similar to what I have in mind, and there are too many questions to post.
I tried to have a look at the other 331 post, but the link on the Cobra page doesn't open. Anyway, it will be a while before I purchase any engine, so the offer is probably not relevant.
Once I get a reply from different engine builders, I will post the specs in this thread, and get your opinions on it.